RefSix

Abuse towards referees.

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#2
I never ever ever allowed that to happen without retribution, it’s appalling Vardy wasn’t charged! The
EPL and the FA need to grow a pair!
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
#3
Never an excuse for abuse but I think it's because we're a lot more inclined to try and 'manage' it softly first. When I did some refereeing in Europe when I was abroad at a grassroots level, I found referees there will get their cards out at the first sign of dissent. We have a much different way of dealing with it. Of course, that's anecdotal, but it is interesting to consider. Not that it's surpising to any of us unfortunately.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#5
Never an excuse for abuse but I think it's because we're a lot more inclined to try and 'manage' it softly first. When I did some refereeing in Europe when I was abroad at a grassroots level, I found referees there will get their cards out at the first sign of dissent. We have a much different way of dealing with it. Of course, that's anecdotal, but it is interesting to consider. Not that it's surpising to any of us unfortunately.
You could also argue that on the continent they do deal with it, where as in this country we don't
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#6
I firmly believe that the Respect Campaign was nothing more than a PR exercise dreamt up but a bunch of suits with their hands tied
Despite football being a working class affair and social decline, it wouldn't be difficult to hit abuse hard. Problem is, there's no financial reward or backing to do so. Hence, we're stuck with a bunch of posters. Sin Bins paper over the cracks with some misleading stats.
I won't be convinced anything is being done about abuse until top flight referees are in on the act
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#7
I firmly believe that the Respect Campaign was nothing more than a PR exercise dreamt up but a bunch of suits with their hands tied
Despite football being a working class affair and social decline, it wouldn't be difficult to hit abuse hard. Problem is, there's no financial reward or backing to do so. Hence, we're stuck with a bunch of posters. Sin Bins paper over the cracks with some misleading stats.
I won't be convinced anything is being done about abuse until top flight referees are in on the act
We can use words like "manage" when it comes to dissent, but essentially that's just showing weakness. OFFINABUS offences people are strong on yet dissent is something many believe should be "managed"? How does it do anything other than encourage further dissent? Qudos to our European counter parts, who according to the research are far less likely to put up with dissent.
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#8
I firmly believe that the Respect Campaign was nothing more than a PR exercise dreamt up but a bunch of suits with their hands tied
Despite football being a working class affair and social decline, it wouldn't be difficult to hit abuse hard. Problem is, there's no financial reward or backing to do so. Hence, we're stuck with a bunch of posters. Sin Bins paper over the cracks with some misleading stats.
I won't be convinced anything is being done about abuse until top flight referees are in on the act
I remember the first ever match I did under the Respect Campaign, I remember all the blurb, how it will be better, yeah, yeah yeah, 1 red for calling me a cheating c*** and a fight before half time....... it was working a treat!!! Complete and utter hogwash!!!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#9
We can use words like "manage" when it comes to dissent, but essentially that's just showing weakness. OFFINABUS offences people are strong on yet dissent is something many believe should be "managed"? How does it do anything other than encourage further dissent? Qudos to our European counter parts, who according to the research are far less likely to put up with dissent.

Do you think say, an average grass roots ref from, England, went to ref for season in pub league in Russia or Italy, would try to manage dissent, or, given the language barrier, would just show cards?
I do think we try to manage things, cos just we can. Sometimes, inadvisably...
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#10
In all seriousness we had an Essex ref register a few yers ago, total clash of accents, mannerisms and cultures, he did get rather an unfortunate nickname as he totally clashed with what he was faced with. I do think local empathy and understanding accents and what's the norm 'dissent / banter wise' I'm sure I'd struggle in the smoke of Larrrndon!!
 
#11
Do you think say, an average grass roots ref from, England, went to ref for season in pub league in Russia or Italy, would try to manage dissent, or, given the language barrier, would just show cards?
Avg ref from England not far from Russia here ;)

Opposite. When there are languages spoken and e.g. slang swearing, colliquial insults, if you don’t understand the nuances it’s harder to card.

Also, in multi language games it’s easier to ignore e.g. low level dissent, or long distance whinging. This is not a good thing. It’s easy to zone out and be oblivious to losing control.

I got tripped up by this a lot after changing leagues a couple of years ago, ARs asking me at half time: “why didn’t you deal with the def shouting at you from 30 yards away?”
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#12
I had some banter with a French lad who played in the Church league, he'd often swear to himself usually in French!! Sadly for him my late mother was French so I knew most of them. He was a lovely lad and whenever he'd scuff a clearance I'd walk past him and say 'c'était de la merde' (That was s**t) :poop:, it always raised a chuckle between us.... ;)
 

one

RefChat Addict
#13
Football has become a business. FIFA and most national FAs are killing the game for money, sponsorship etc. They all publicly reject this sort of behaviour but expect the referees to put up with it. Not following their expectation negatively impacts a top flight referee's career. They publicly ask the refs to do something but expect them to do something else. The only referees who make it to the top are the ones who "manage" this sort of thing instead of applying the law.

All A-league refs in Aus covered their respect badges last round in protest of not getting enough support from FFA following derogatory comments from a coach on TV.

Remember this from the world cup? Ronaldo aggressively told the ref to "f*ck off" and was cautioned (instead of send off). Then he did this headbutt motion with no action taken. Had he sent Ronaldo off, it would have been the end of his career. No retro action from FIFA on Ronaldo either.

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#15
If you post paywall/sign up articles, can you at least copy/paste the article here?
I'm not sure about reposting the article (possible copyright issue?) but the main thrust of it is that referees in England are subjected to frequent verbal abuse at a rate something like 7 times as often as colleagues in continental Europe, with 60% of English referees reporting having experienced it as compared to (for example) only 2% in the Netherlands and 14% in France.
 

RefJef

Well-Known Member
#17
I'm not sure about reposting the article (possible copyright issue?) but the main thrust of it is that referees in England are subjected to frequent verbal abuse at a rate something like 7 times as often as colleagues in continental Europe, with 60% of English referees reporting having experienced it as compared to (for example) only 2% in the Netherlands and 14% in France.
Thanks for that - for added clarity, has it looked at refs across the spectrum, I.e. from in amongst the weeds of grass roots all the way up to the top flight, or just a certain layer (either, say, the professional game, grass roots, youth etc.)

I gather that the full report/journal has yet to be published by the researchers, the headline findings have been published in the UEFA Direct magazine this month, hence it has been picked up by the Telegraph. Hopefully when the full report is published we’ll be able to see it not behind a paywall.
 
#19
I should perhaps just mention that you don't have to pay to read the full article, it's not part of their 'premium' content that requires payment, you can read it by registering for free which is what I just did yesterday (wouldn't normally read the Telegraph otherwise).
 
#20
We can use words like "manage" when it comes to dissent, but essentially that's just showing weakness. OFFINABUS offences people are strong on yet dissent is something many believe should be "managed"? How does it do anything other than encourage further dissent? Qudos to our European counter parts, who according to the research are far less likely to put up with dissent.
It may sound pedantic but to me 'managing' ACTUAL dissent is the same as ignoring obviously reckless challenges. It's just a dereliction of our duties.

However not all frustration or backchat to the referee is actually dissent. Whilst dissent by action is normally clear and therefore relatively important to punish (as it's so obvious to all in the ground), dissent by word can often be more subjective. If we remember that " Dissent is strong disagreement or dissatisfaction with a decision or opinion" then basically what we're deciding is whether the legitimate difference of opinion regarding the decision tips over into 'strong disagreement'. That's the bit where it gets interesting :)
 
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