A&H

A/R's becoming pointless!

The Referee Store
this will never happen, but if this is brought in, and i think it should, then i'd like to see games with two referees as they do in hockey / ice hockey and have done in rugby league in oz and extend goal line tech to all ball in / out of play decisions. remove the now superlfous AR and replace with a second ref. obviously loads to work out about seniority and who calls what where etc. but i think it could work well.
 
es1 said:
this will never happen, but if this is brought in, and i think it should, then i'd like to see games with two referees as they do in hockey / ice hockey and have done in rugby league in oz and extend goal line tech to all ball in / out of play decisions. remove the now superlfous AR and replace with a second ref. obviously loads to work out about seniority and who calls what where etc. but i think it could work well.
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Before I tell you I dont like this idea what would be the benefit to having 2 referees over one and a video one?
 
JamesL said:
Before I tell you I dont like this idea what would be the benefit to having 2 referees over one and a video one?
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of course VAR would still be there but if you do away with the 2 ARs i think you need to provide another set of eyes actually on the pitch to make up for the two you've just lost

a 2nd ref would also be able to watch different elements of the game from different angles at the same time without being distracted by offside / ball in and out of play as an AR would.
 
I went on record in 2006, in the annual conference, saying within 20 years the ARs be gone.

I was ambitious with my statement, and roundly ridiculed.

there is no need for an AR in elite football, simply hawkeye all the boundary lines
Var will do the rest
the ref can go thro the motions
Dont even need a 4th, afterall, he simply stands there listening to the wrath of the coaches, remove him, you remove the incentive to moan.

i accept now the ridicule waa justified, as, 22 years would have been more realistic
 
Kent Ref said:
Another nail in the A/R's future:

www.bbc.co.uk

Fifa trials semi-automated offsides

The use of technology to help officials make more accurate offside decisions will be tested at the Fifa Arab Cup, which starts on Tuesday.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk
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You already know I consider SG1 ARs to be 'ball boys'
Unless something truly seismic happens, like the EPL kicking VAR into touch, I'd be in favour of anything that dramatically speeds up the awful process.
After all, the killer blow (in VAR's WMD arsenal), is the tempering of excitement in the moment a goal is scored
The true Referee is already in Stockley Park, so the avalanche trend of removing responsibility from on-field Officials is already progressing quickly
 
It won't work, the technology is nowhere near good enough yet, but it makes sense to try it as long as a human has the final say. And the ARs will still be needed for ball out of play, fouls on referee's blind side, etc. Hawkeye could potentially cover the whole goal line rather then just between posts, but I very much doubt it could cover the whole touchline, at least not without huge expense.
 
As its reported, system would have to tell AVAR about possible offside, THEN he decides if it is offside as per LOTG, THEN he tells on field AR, THEN he tells referee, who then stops play - not sure how this can speed things up?!!!!!
 
Just adds a level of confusion to the mix. Lots of info to digest from watching the game/your own views and interpretation/feedback from this system

Will take ARs some getting used to for sure
 
Didn't the BBC used to do something similar where a flag would pop up on the screen?
 
In the US, High School and NCAA (college) "soccer" allows two or even three referees and have many wide variations from IFAB laws... If anyone's interested this makes interesting reading: https://nfhs.org/media/4860175/2021-soccer-guide-ncaa-nfhs-ifab.pdf. I referreed back in the 2002-5 frame in the US but only under IFAB leagues. Reckon this disparity shows any future is possible !
 
DevonRef said:
In the US, High School and NCAA (college) "soccer" allows two or even three referees and have many wide variations from IFAB laws... If anyone's interested this makes interesting reading: https://nfhs.org/media/4860175/2021-soccer-guide-ncaa-nfhs-ifab.pdf. I referreed back in the 2002-5 frame in the US but only under IFAB leagues. Reckon this disparity shows any future is possible !
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While I do find the comparison between the different codes fascinating (yes, I'm that kind of nerd) I'm not sure I'd totally agree with everything there.

For one thing, only the NFHS Rules allow 3 referees. The NISOA/NCAA do permit a dual referee system but only under unusual circumstances - and their rules say a single ref system "shall be used." I don't recall seeing the dual system used in an NCAA game within the last decade or so (certainly not in any higher-level/televised college games).

And I wouldn't say the NFHS Rules differ from IFAB Laws that widely, in most of the basics. There are a good number of technical differences but if anything, in recent years I'd say they've got a fair bit closer, as they seem to have made a clear effort to "mirror" changes in the IFAB Laws, for such things as dropped balls, goal kicks, kick-offs, goalkeeper movement at penalties, changes in interpretation of offside etc, etc. The main differences for me would centre around timekeeping and player equipment.

There's a bit of an underlying difference in philosophy in that the NFHS Rules are for high school kids and place a much greater emphasis on sportsmanship and player safety, for example.

I'm also not sure the NFHS (or NISOA) Rules have any implication whatever for the future of the IFAB Laws - in fact I rather doubt that many in the IFAB are even aware of what they contain.

Interesting little historical side-note - the FA did request permission to trial the dual referee system at an IFAB AGM back in 1937, but the proposal was withdrawn, for unspecified reasons.

Screenshot_2022_0102_144223.png
 
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Peter Grove said:
While I do find the comparison between the different codes fascinating (yes, I'm that kind of nerd) I'm not sure I'd totally agree with everything there.

For one thing, only the NFHS Rules allow 3 referees. The NISOA/NCAA do permit a dual referee system but only under unusual circumstances - and their rules say a single ref system "shall be used." I don't recall seeing the dual system used in an NCAA game within the last decade or so (certainly not in any higher-level/televised college games).

And I wouldn't say the NFHS Rules differ from IFAB Laws that widely, in most of the basics. There are a good number of technical differences but if anything, in recent years I'd say they've got a fair bit closer, as they seem to have made a clear effort to "mirror" changes in the IFAB Laws, for such things as dropped balls, goal kicks, kick-offs, goalkeeper movement at penalties, changes in interpretation of offside etc, etc. The main differences for me would centre around timekeeping and player equipment.

There's a bit of an underlying difference in philosophy in that that NFHS Rules are for high school kids and place a much greater emphasis on sportsmanship and player safety, for example.

I'm also not sure the NFHS (or NISOA) Rules have any implication whatever for the future of the IFAB Laws - in fact I rather doubt that many in the IFAB are even aware of what they contain.

Interesting little historical side-note - the FA did request permission to trial the dual referee system at an IFAB AGM back in 1937, but the proposal was withdrawn, for unspecified reasons.

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I can't imagine what it would be like as a player to yell at @Peter Grove , 'whew, Ref, how's that a foul'? The detailed response would probably amount to an affective means at stamping out any dissent in the game 🤓
 
Big Cat said:
I can't imagine what it would be like as a player to yell at @Peter Grove , 'whew, Ref, how's that a foul'? The detailed response would probably amount to an affective means at stamping out any dissent in the game 🤓
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Funny you should say that. I used to ref mostly youth games and I think I may have had a few parents down the years who probably regretted having the temerity to ask that kind of question after a game, by the time I'd finished giving them a potted history of the laws for their troubles. ☺️
 
Peter Grove said:
Funny you should say that. I used to ref mostly youth games and I think I may have had a few parents down the years who probably regretted having the temerity to ask that kind of question after a game, by the time I'd finished giving them a potted history of the laws for their troubles. ☺️
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I'd wager that the majority of footballing parents wouldn't know the word "temerity" if it smacked them round the face like a wet fish :)
 
JamesL said:
Didn't the BBC used to do something similar where a flag would pop up on the screen?
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That was an on-screen signal that the AR had pressed the buzzer. I assume they were 'listening in' on the radio frequency used by the buzzer system.
 
Trip said:
That was an on-screen signal that the AR had pressed the buzzer. I assume they were 'listening in' on the radio frequency used by the buzzer system.
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Thank you... At least I hadn't dreamt it. 🤣
 
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