RefSix

A back-pass? Or not

Status
Not open for further replies.

BenC

New Member
#1
Okay, I was refereeing a game last night and here's how I saw it from my side:

An angled ball is played from the right side towards a player on the left, the defender slides with the 'intent' to push the ball back, towards his own touchline. The keep then scrambles and manages to pick the ball up - "with intent".
My interpretation - Backpass, indirect free kick.

The side being penalized claim that as the player was sliding, it was his intent to push the ball out for a corner (the slide was at about the edge of the 18 yard box). My personal view - if that's the case, then tell your keeper to leave it and not prevent the corner.

Views on this?
Thanks,
Ben
 

SM

The avuncular one
#2
It has to be a deliberate back pass. As long as you are satisfied that was the defenders intention to play it to the keeper then it's a idfk.
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#3
Ben, it may just be the way i'm reading Monkey's reply but i don't think he means that the situation that you describe in your o/p 'has to be a deliberate back pass'

'intent' on the part of the keeper doesn't come into it. i am assuming that monkey is just clarifying the fact that the 'intent' has to be on the part of the defender.

you may have understood that from his reply anyway :)
 

Craig Evans

New Member
Level 7 Referee
#4
I would have let play continue; the defending player has to play a deliberate pass to the keeper. If the keeper has suddenly rushed from his goal to collect the ball then I doubt it was a deliberate pass.

What I do; and this situation may have helped - I will shout "okay keeper" or "kick it keeper" if the GK seems to have any doubt.
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#5
I would have let play continue; the defending player has to play a deliberate pass to the keeper. If the keeper has suddenly rushed from his goal to collect the ball then I doubt it was a deliberate pass.

What I do; and this situation may have helped - I will shout "okay keeper" or "kick it keeper" if the GK seems to have any doubt.
....and would you ever say, 'player free on your right striker' or 'take it quickly'

how much 'help', if any, should you give to the teams on the pitch?

what do you do if the keeper, in the o/p, or any player in another situation, asks for your advice before deciding what to do?

Do the lotg's or their interpretation give us any advice on this?

So many questions :)
 

SM

The avuncular one
#6
What Craig has suggested could be considered preventative officiating... :)

This particular situation is open to interpratation and as long as you're consistent for both teams then seems harmless, unlike some of your other suggestions!
 

Craig Evans

New Member
Level 7 Referee
#7
There is a big difference in advising and instructing; especially when it's to prevent the stoppage of a game. Like like when I instruct players at corners to keep "arms away", or at FK's when I instruct the wall to "keep yours hands either infront or behind you".

Communication is so important for us referee's now - if you're a silent ref who fails to communicates with players you'll never progress
 

Pierluigi

Well-Known Member
#8
....and would you ever say, 'player free on your right striker' or 'take it quickly'

how much 'help', if any, should you give to the teams on the pitch?

what do you do if the keeper, in the o/p, or any player in another situation, asks for your advice before deciding what to do?

Do the lotg's or their interpretation give us any advice on this?

So many questions :)
A large amount of refereeing is trying to take preventative measures, giving a shout such as 'Don't pick it up keeper' or "Okay keeper' as described work in the same way as having a word with a player when they are one poor challenge away from a booking for persistent infringement. All you are essentially doing is attempting to prevent infringements from occurring. Prevention is better than cure.
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#9
There is a big difference in advising and instructing; especially when it's to prevent the stoppage of a game. Like like when I instruct players at corners to keep "arms away", or at FK's when I instruct the wall to "keep yours hands either infront or behind you".

Communication is so important for us referee's now - if you're a silent ref who fails to communicates with players you'll never progress
instructing players to keeps arms away (i'm interpreting this as 'no holding / hands off kind of comment) at corners is covered by the interpretation of the lotg. instructing a wall to keeps hands in front or behind is not and isn't, i would argue, part of a referee's remit...ditto advising a keeper whether he can pick up the ball or not....ditto telling players to be careful when you sense a foul challenge coming in....
 

haywain

the voice of reason
Level 7 Referee
#10
A large amount of refereeing is trying to take preventative measures, giving a shout such as 'Don't pick it up keeper' or "Okay keeper' as described work in the same way as having a word with a player when they are one poor challenge away from a booking for persistent infringement. All you are essentially doing is attempting to prevent infringements from occurring. Prevention is better than cure.

taking this to it's ridiculous extreme....let's not start the match today lads, cos something is bound to go wrong

some referees are just frustrated footballers
 

Pierluigi

Well-Known Member
#11
taking this to it's ridiculous extreme....let's not start the match today lads, cos something is bound to go wrong

some referees are just frustrated footballers
Haywain frankly that argument takes a valid point to such a ridiculous degree it becomes logically incoherent. Your second comment is also not only odd but potentially offensive to some colleagues.
 

Alex71

RefChat Addict
#14
Isn't there a career path - player to referee to assessor to whatever - based on physical condition !?!? ... I love ref-ing but I wish I could have played more - I am a 'frustrated footballer' :)

There is a point here - how much do we talk to players ...

I think a "hands down" call is a good preventive thing especially when it is directed at players from both sides ...

I think "Don't trip him" to a player is border-line - he can if he wants, and I'll book him if he does - but this is directed at one player from one team ...

I think "Do the Keeper" as I said to a player at a kick off recently (friendly match) was perfectly fine - I saw it, got the ball quickly to the CF, reminded him how many touches were needed for him to have a strike at goal - and he did !! !!
 

Alex71

RefChat Addict
#15
19 and a level 4 referee, a good achievement. Try not to be patronising Haywain.
I'm 40 and have only been ref-ing 3 years - age isn't important (albeit sometimes players can wrongly perceive youth for inexeperience) - I'm sure I can learn as much from you as from haywain :)

I'm also soooooooo jealous of people like drahc who started their ref careers much earlier than I did

Good on yer drahc - keep reaching for the skies ... well done for getting involved as an assessor and mentor
 

drahc

Well-Known Member
Observer/Tutor
#16
I'm 40 and have only been ref-ing 3 years - age isn't important (albeit sometimes players can wrongly perceive youth for inexeperience) - I'm sure I can learn as much from you as from haywain :)

I'm also soooooooo jealous of people like drahc who started their ref careers much earlier than I did

Good on yer drahc - keep reaching for the skies ... well done for getting involved as an assessor and mentor
Alex - I am not 19, Pierlugi is. I agree with you, age is just a number. Those at higher levels (level 5s like yourself) can give massive support, due to the number of assessments they have received! Those at lower levels can also give the same support, due to experience - we learn from everyone.

A lot of referees do wish they started earlier, and Pierlugi is of the right age to progress as far as he can, youth is on his side.

And thank you.
 

SM

The avuncular one
#17
Problem here is that we have a mixture of serious and far less serious answers and comments.

Not everyone gets your comedy stylings today @haywain - and you used a smilee and everything!
 

Pierluigi

Well-Known Member
#19
@haywain I am very sorry if I have misinterpreted your words as serious rather than humour (like @Supermonkey implies) but unfortunately they don't come across that way. Age really is just a number and I felt you may have shown more maturity in your provocative response (especially after questioning my own). How did you want me to respond? 'i keep forgetting that you're only a level 7 :rolleyes:' Unfortunately I have too much respect for my colleagues to say such a thing! I totally agree with @drahc, we really can learn from everyone irrespective of level and age.

Going back to the original debate (I'm not saying I'm right or wrong- this is what forums are for, expressing opinions without judgement). A backpass can be one of the most subjective decisions a referee will give and due to the nature that there is generally a decent period of time between the 'deliberate backpass' and the goalkeeper picking up the ball, why not eliminate the confusion and make the keeper aware of your interpretation.I was never saying we should do it for everything.

Finally thanks very much to @drahc and @Alex71 for your kind words!
 

Alex71

RefChat Addict
#20
If a GK ASKED me (by word or action) if they could pick the ball up - I would give them an answer ... I don't think I would offer any advice to the GK if they did not ask first
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top