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Alex Rush-Fear

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
When I said no training I meant no running or specific training for a fitness test. Lots of cycling and cross trainer, but running messes up my knees so don't do it other than when refereeing.
Think I may be joining you on that approach soon - pretty sure I'm getting arthritis in my left knee 🚑
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
True, but it simply doesn’t replicate all of what a referee has to do during a match, I.e. sprints, sudden changes in direction etc.
Why should it?

The Cooper test is an aerobic/anerobic cardiovascular fitness test. You're either fit enough to pass it or your not.

What you've mentioned is just something a referee does during the course of a match. I can still sprint and change direction no matter how unfit I am. Besides, there are 2 x 50m sprints as part of the test anyway.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Why should it?

The Cooper test is an aerobic/anerobic cardiovascular fitness test. You're either fit enough to pass it or your not.

What you've mentioned is just something a referee does during the course of a match. I can still sprint and change direction no matter how unfit I am. Besides, there are 2 x 50m sprints as part of the test anyway.
I’m not saying replace the Cooper test, I was merely pointing out that referees do more than run in a circle for 12 minutes.

Of course, whatever they do to measure fitness needs to be something that can be easily organised without the need for specialist equipment or overly complicated procedures.

The FIFA fitness tests are pretty simple, and other national FAs use those to measure their referees fitness.
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I’m not saying replace the Cooper test, I was merely pointing out that referees do more than run in a circle for 12 minutes.

Of course, whatever they do to measure fitness needs to be something that can be easily organised without the need for specialist equipment or overly complicated procedures.

The FIFA fitness tests are pretty simple, and other national FAs use those to measure their referees fitness.
We're probably on the same page
Obviously, the FIFA style testing would represent higher specificity, but it's impracticable for the masses and unnecessary IMO
Your 12 minute test will is a very accurate race time predictor for every distance from say 400m to 10K. Shorter sprints and endurance events will be less relevant. But I betcha the vast majority of those passing a Coops Test for say... 2.8K... would be the same folk passing the FIFA wotnot
In fact I guarantee it!
 
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RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
I’m not saying replace the Cooper test, I was merely pointing out that referees do more than run in a circle for 12 minutes.

Of course, whatever they do to measure fitness needs to be something that can be easily organised without the need for specialist equipment or overly complicated procedures.

The FIFA fitness tests are pretty simple, and other national FAs use those to measure their referees fitness.

Difficulty is it needs too many people to administer. Fine at L3 and above but not for 5 to 4 where fitness tests rely on volunteers.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
It is a good guide for Level 4 refereeing fitness in my opinion.

No matter how fit a referee thinks they are, if they can't pass the Cooper test then they simply aren't fit. Certainly not enough to be operating at 4 and above.
I disagree with this, and wouldn’t want it to put off referees pushing for this level.

I have exercise induced asthma and really struggle with this fitness test even with lots of training. Weather plays a big part in this as well, however when it comes to a match day environment I absolutely breeze through it because of the stop start nature. Whilst I think this fitness test does has its place, I think it’s wrong to say that ‘if you can’t pass the test, you’re not fit’
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
I disagree with this, and wouldn’t want it to put off referees pushing for this level.

I have exercise induced asthma and really struggle with this fitness test even with lots of training. Weather plays a big part in this as well, however when it comes to a match day environment I absolutely breeze through it because of the stop start nature. Whilst I think this fitness test does has its place, I think it’s wrong to say that ‘if you can’t pass the test, you’re not fit’

Are you a Level 4 (or above) ?
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Are you a Level 4 (or above) ?
I’m not, however I regularly go training with various referees of that level and from my experience, when doing running drills such as interval training, bleep tests etc I have no problems and maintain the same level of fitness as them however when it comes to continues running, I struggle. I can’t say have had the experience of level 4, but start stop running is a different ball game to a continuous run and those 5/10 second breaks do wonders for my breathing.

my point is that referees training for the 12 minute test and struggling (as I do) could be put off by seeing posts which tell them they aren’t fit enough, when that’s not the case. It’s a different style of endurance altogether.
 

ChasObserverRefDeveloper

Regular Contributor
In pre-Covid times I helped the County FA run the fitness tests for those aiming for promotion to Level 5. We organised the tests for a midweek evening in the days after the grassroots season ended.
Most passed. We then had one guy who failed saying what a ridiculous time of year to test fitness.
I asked whether he had refereed on the last Saturday of the season. "Yes, I did"
"Why do you think this is a ridiculous time for the test?"
"Should be in the summer"
"Why?"
"Gives us a chance to get fit"
(He later failed his retake on a cool July evening)
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
I’m not, however I regularly go training with various referees of that level and from my experience, when doing running drills such as interval training, bleep tests etc I have no problems and maintain the same level of fitness as them however when it comes to continues running, I struggle. I can’t say have had the experience of level 4, but start stop running is a different ball game to a continuous run and those 5/10 second breaks do wonders for my breathing.

my point is that referees training for the 12 minute test and struggling (as I do) could be put off by seeing posts which tell them they aren’t fit enough, when that’s not the case. It’s a different style of endurance altogether.

All irrelevant.

And as for "putting referees off" - I've done no such thing. I've simply stated that a referee who can't pass the Cooper Test (which is after all a very basic test of cardiovascular fitness and a minimum required standard) isn't fit enough to operate at Level 4 or above.

Like it or not these are proven facts. Feelings don't come into it.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
it was more aimed at your post of ‘if you're under 35, not overweight and have any aspirations to get beyond Level 5, it should be a doddle. If it's not, then perhaps refereeing at Level 4 or above is not for you.’

This isn’t factual at all. I’m all of the above, but do not find it a doddle. Does that mean I should give up?
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
it was more aimed at your post of ‘if you're under 35, not overweight and have any aspirations to get beyond Level 5, it should be a doddle. If it's not, then perhaps refereeing at Level 4 or above is not for you.’

This isn’t factual at all. I’m all of the above, but do not find it a doddle. Does that mean I should give up?
The fact remains, you must pass the fitness test to get to L4
So whilst your asthma is obviously unfortunate, you're buggered. My slipped disc has left me with a very slight limp (which I hope will get better). But for now, it's tough luck if it means it stops me from passing the test. So I think @Kes is merely pointing this out
After all, there'd be no sympathy from Step 5/6 sides for our ailments. They don't care
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
The fact remains, you must pass the fitness test to get to L4
So whilst your asthma is obviously unfortunate, you're buggered. My slipped disc has left me with a very slight limp (which I hope will get better). But for now, it's tough luck if it means it stops me from passing the test. So I think @Kes is merely pointing this out
I accept that the test has to be passed, and I can and have passed this very test recently. The point I’m making is Kes has suggested that it should be a doddle and if it’s not, then L4 probably isn’t for you. Why does it need to be a doddle? I did a load of training to (and I admit) scrape through the test, but a pass is a pass regardless of if I found it difficult or not. We should be encouraging people to work hard to achieve their goal, not just saying ‘if you don’t find it easy then It’s not for you’
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I accept that the test has to be passed, and I can and have passed this very test recently. The point I’m making is Kes has suggested that it should be a doddle and if it’s not, then L4 probably isn’t for you. Why does it need to be a doddle? I did a load of training to (and I admit) scrape through the test, but a pass is a pass regardless of if I found it difficult or not. We should be encouraging people to work hard to achieve their goal, not just saying ‘if you don’t find it easy then It’s not for you’
Yes, we only need pass. It doesn't need to be a doddle. Those fortunate enough to be under 35 with a normal BMI would probably pass it with reasonable ease if they trained for it
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
it was more aimed at your post of ‘if you're under 35, not overweight and have any aspirations to get beyond Level 5, it should be a doddle. If it's not, then perhaps refereeing at Level 4 or above is not for you.’

This isn’t factual at all. I’m all of the above, but do not find it a doddle. Does that mean I should give up?
Up to you mate. (and I don't mean that to sound flippant or harsh :))

I stand by what I said, because it's true. If you have a medical condition that makes it difficult for you that's neither here nor there in the context of the discussion. Like I said, if all the above apply, then it should be a doddle. Alright, perhaps I could have added "and have no underlying medical conditions that would prevent you from passing it" to my assertion but frankly, my post was meant as a generic intention. You've managed to make it about you.

Being able to run 2.6km in under 12mins is nothing special for anybody 35 or below. If you can't then ad infinitum ... etc.
 
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Big Cat

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
Up to you mate. (and I don't mean that to sound flippant or harsh :))

I stand by what I said, because it's true. If you have a medical condition that makes it difficult for you that's neither here nor there in the context of the discussion. Like I said, if all the above apply, then it should be a doddle. Alright, perhaps I could have added "and have no underlying medical conditions that would prevent you from passing it" to my assertion but frankly, my post was meant as a generic intention. You've managed to make it about you.

Being able to run 2.6km in under 12mins is nothing special for anybody 35 or below. If you can't then ad infinitum ... etc.
I think you might be seeing the world through your night vision goggles having spent the last 6 months carrying 100lb round the Brecon Beacons
Well not quite and I concede that the table below is probably based on the McDonalds Generation

Age
Excellent
Above Average
Average
Below Average
Poor
Male 20-29>2800m2400-2800m2200-2399m1600-2199m<1600m
Females 20-29>2700m2200-2700m1800-2199m1500-1799m<1500m
Males 30-39>2700m2300-2700m1900-2299m1500-1999m<1500m
Females 30-39>2500m2000-2500m1700-1999m1400-1699m<1400m
Males 40-49>2500m2100-2500m1700-2099m1400-1699m<1400m
Females 40-49>2300m1900-2300m1500-1899m1200-1499m<1200m
Males 50+>2400m2000-2400m1600-1999m1300-1599m<1300m
Females 50+>2200m1700-2200m1400-1699m1100-1399m<1100m

I just had a go at it earlier this afternoon
2300m on softish grass (local parks pitch), which ok considering I've been utterly crocked since the New Year and am left running like Peg Leg Meg
 
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zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Depending where you got it from that table is probably fairly accurate for your “average” person.

And it’s not really a difficult standard to meet. In the Army every man under 30 and not in units with higher fitness standards has to run 2.4km in 10:30 or faster, which equates to above average/excellent on your table. And most of them spend a good portion of their time drinking, smoking and eating crap.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
I think you might be seeing the world through your night vision goggles having spent the last 6 months carrying 100lb round the Brecon Beacons
Well not quite and I concede that the table below is probably based on the McDonalds Generation

Age
Excellent
Above Average
Average
Below Average
Poor
Male 20-29>2800m2400-2800m2200-2399m1600-2199m<1600m
Females 20-29>2700m2200-2700m1800-2199m1500-1799m<1500m
Males 30-39>2700m2300-2700m1900-2299m1500-1999m<1500m
Females 30-39>2500m2000-2500m1700-1999m1400-1699m<1400m
Males 40-49>2500m2100-2500m1700-2099m1400-1699m<1400m
Females 40-49>2300m1900-2300m1500-1899m1200-1499m<1200m
Males 50+>2400m2000-2400m1600-1999m1300-1599m<1300m
Females 50+>2200m1700-2200m1400-1699m1100-1399m<1100m

I just had a go at it earlier this afternoon
2300m on softish grass (local parks pitch) which ok considering I've been utterly crocked since the New Year

I think you might be seeing the world through your night vision goggles having spent the last 6 months carrying 100lb round the Brecon Beacons
Well not quite and I concede that the table below is probably based on the McDonalds Generation

Age
Excellent
Above Average
Average
Below Average
Poor
Male 20-29>2800m2400-2800m2200-2399m1600-2199m<1600m
Females 20-29>2700m2200-2700m1800-2199m1500-1799m<1500m
Males 30-39>2700m2300-2700m1900-2299m1500-1999m<1500m
Females 30-39>2500m2000-2500m1700-1999m1400-1699m<1400m
Males 40-49>2500m2100-2500m1700-2099m1400-1699m<1400m
Females 40-49>2300m1900-2300m1500-1899m1200-1499m<1200m
Males 50+>2400m2000-2400m1600-1999m1300-1599m<1300m
Females 50+>2200m1700-2200m1400-1699m1100-1399m<1100m

I just had a go at it earlier this afternoon
2300m on softish grass (local parks pitch) which ok considering I've been utterly crocked since the New Year

Mate, my days of doing stuff like that ended many moons ago. Pretty much tied to a desk these days. ;)

As for the "McDonalds Generation" - you said it. :rolleyes::D
 
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