The Ref Stop

4G/Astro

Gabriel said:
After noticing this pop up as an issue for me this season, and seeing others hinting at it, I thought I'd finally raise it. Before I started reffing, I'd never badly injured myself. A year and a bit into refereeing, and I've spent at least 3 to 4 months out injured in total. All but 1 of these injuries have come from refereeing on 4G (the one that didn't happened 3 days after a game on 4G, when I was still incredibly sore - that doesn't happen to me on grass!). Is this a common thing or is it just an unfortunate coincidence? I wear the same boots on Astro/4G as I do on grass (not sure if this is the norm? It was recommended to me when reffing at the Wolves academy when I spoke to their physio and a few of the coaches). If you experience this, how do you cope with it? Thanks!
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What injuries are you getting? What is your current state of fitness?

Apologies from my cynicism, but I have spent many years listening to referees complain about all manner of issues which have lead to their injuries and how their smart watches show they're doing 11km a game, when the issue is clearly that they're not fit and their injuries are often down to their own issues with weight & lack of fitness etc.

I referee and play on grass & 3g pitches and at 40, I must've been involved in 1500+ games in my life. 3g surfaces can cause some muscle stiffness due to its nature, but not as bad as firm grass pitches in my experience. But I've never found them to increase the risk of injury, especially when refereeing is simply a mixture of walking and running at various speeds. My advice would be to focus on strengthening any areas of repeat injury and working on getting yourself fitter over the winter. That would rule out general fitness issues leading to injuries and help you to focus on the actual cause.
 
The Ref Stop
Ben448844 said:
What injuries are you getting? What is your current state of fitness?

Apologies from my cynicism, but I have spent many years listening to referees complain about all manner of issues which have lead to their injuries and how their smart watches show they're doing 11km a game, when the issue is clearly that they're not fit and their injuries are often down to their own issues with weight & lack of fitness etc.

I referee and play on grass & 3g pitches and at 40, I must've been involved in 1500+ games in my life. 3g surfaces can cause some muscle stiffness due to its nature, but not as bad as firm grass pitches in my experience. But I've never found them to increase the risk of injury, especially when refereeing is simply a mixture of walking and running at various speeds. My advice would be to focus on strengthening any areas of repeat injury and working on getting yourself fitter over the winter. That would rule out general fitness issues leading to injuries and help you to focus on the actual cause.
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I think you'll end up eating all of those words with your advancing years! My first ever muscle injury occurred at around 44 years old and 3G has been an occasional menace ever since and I'm in the gym 3 or 4 times a week doing strength work
 
Big Cat said:
I think you'll end up eating all of those words with your advancing years! My first ever muscle injury occurred at around 44 years old and 3G has been an occasional menace ever since and I'm in the gym 3 or 4 times a week doing strength work
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I've had muscle injuries, but they aren't because of 3g surfaces. Muscles tighten with age, that's always going to be a factor. 3g pitches are used all over the world and for anyone who's relatively fit, they aren't the major contributor to injuries. Obviously it's not one size fits all, and we're all different. But my experience in refereeing over the last 8 years or so is very much that a common factor in referees who complain about injuries is the lack of personal responsibility. It's often blamed on outside factors and that's usually nonsense or a minor cause.
 
When I've had issues after 3G pitches it's always been muscle soreness / DOMS but I do t tend to get it most of the time after using them. It's never given me a serious injury though, I must say, although I don't think *touches wood* I've ever had a serious injury that's kept me out for more than a week.
 
RefereeX said:
When I've had issues after 3G pitches it's always been muscle soreness / DOMS but I do t tend to get it most of the time after using them. It's never given me a serious injury though, I must say, although I don't think *touches wood* I've ever had a serious injury that's kept me out for more than a week.
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One issue with 3g ssurfaces that they tend to be towards the larger size of pitches. Especially for someone who's used to park pitches which can sometimes be smaller. It could be that the original poster is simply running more because it's a bigger pitch. You're also travelling at a faster speed on a 3g pitch than in the mud.

I advocate always looking at what you can do first. I just hear far too many excuses and far too many people not willing to put the effort in themselves and relying on protein bars, energy drinks, foam rollers etc to replace the work they haven't done to prevent their issues. I played last week and two 21 year old were "done" after an hour of a local league football we were playing in because the conditions were tough and they were tired! Straight on the vapes & the red bull. I nearly went all Eddie Abbeu on them 🤣
 
Ben448844 said:
protein bars, energy drinks, foam rollers
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I agree all of these are a waste of time and money
There may be some benefit to top up on carbohydrate for the latter part of the game, but a healthy person's liver and muscles harbour enough glucose to last for 2 hours or more. Protein bars are full of sh1t, quite literally. Not good for you. Have some chicken or nuts or whatever. Foam rollers, massage guns etc.....? Whilst they may have some benefit at home to recover, I'm not convinced they're needed in a kit bag

I have a cold bath after every game. 10 minutes or so in cold tap water has been helping with aches and pains
I'm trying to get rid of a calf muscle niggle. Disappointing given the time I spend lifting leg weights these days. It's just an age thing, but it's always 3G from which the problems emanate from for me
 
I did see an individual take an energy gel pre-match and another at half time while running the line recently... thought that was possibly a touch excessive 😆 (as in he was running the line, not in the middle)
 
Big Cat said:
I have a cold bath after every game. 10 minutes or so in cold tap water has been helping with aches and pains
I'm trying to get rid of a calf muscle niggle. Disappointing given the time I spend lifting leg weights these days. It's just an age thing, but it's always 3G from which the problems emanate from for me
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Why do you think 3G is causing you problems compared to a normal pitch?

I personally prefer 3G as there are no unexpected dips where the pitch goes down and up.

My game on Sunday there was a significant dip between the penalty area and the arch on the edge of the area. Luckily i spotted it and avoided it.
 
Ben448844 said:
What injuries are you getting? What is your current state of fitness?

Apologies from my cynicism, but I have spent many years listening to referees complain about all manner of issues which have lead to their injuries and how their smart watches show they're doing 11km a game, when the issue is clearly that they're not fit and their injuries are often down to their own issues with weight & lack of fitness etc.

I referee and play on grass & 3g pitches and at 40, I must've been involved in 1500+ games in my life. 3g surfaces can cause some muscle stiffness due to its nature, but not as bad as firm grass pitches in my experience. But I've never found them to increase the risk of injury, especially when refereeing is simply a mixture of walking and running at various speeds. My advice would be to focus on strengthening any areas of repeat injury and working on getting yourself fitter over the winter. That would rule out general fitness issues leading to injuries and help you to focus on the actual cause.
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Injuries are largely muscle based. It’s nearly always the same ankle. The problems started after I injured my ankle by tripping over a tree root and tearing the muscles/soft tissues when I landed on the side of my foot. About my current state of fitness - I’d generally consider myself to be reasonably fit, and I don’t have any issues during games with keeping up, and I don’t get breathless when it’s just a jog. After sprints from one end of the pitch to the other, naturally I notice a change in breathing pattern, but it only takes a few seconds for me to get it back under control. I just notice that my ankle gets sore. I’ve started to adapt my warm up and cool down routines the last few weeks, and I’ve changed my boots, and I’ve noticed it is less of an issue now.
 
Kent Ref said:
Why do you think 3G is causing you problems compared to a normal pitch?

I personally prefer 3G as there are no unexpected dips where the pitch goes down and up.

My game on Sunday there was a significant dip between the penalty area and the arch on the edge of the area. Luckily i spotted it and avoided it.
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I don't know what it is. Running on grass is generally accepted to be more forgiving than running on firmer surfaces, so I suppose 3G seems to be a bit like road running as far as I'm concerned
 
There is plenty of evidence out there in both football (US version) and rugby that there is a higher incidence of injury on artificial/3G pitches, albeit much of the research is flawed in that no surface - whether 3G or grass - is uniform. On grass, especially here, the surfaces vary greatly in quality, plus across the season there's a wide range of "going", to use horseracing parlance, from hard to soft. What we do know is that across professional sport there is widespread reporting of additional muscle and joint soreness from artificial surfaces as opposed to grass.

In horseracing, it has proven that injury rates both for horses and jockeys who fall is higher on harder/quicker surfaces than softer ones, and that on artificial surfaces it is higher too, though not by much (except for jockeys).

Footwear and personal fitness for us referees is almost certainly a contributory factor - when I changed my shoes and used insoles the Achilles tendonitis I was suffering from having refereed and trained almost exclusively on 3G for many months disappeared in a couple of weeks. Anyone who's played or refereed on different 3G pitches also knows there's a massive difference in quality and feel. Some you feel like you're springing off, others feel like running on a road. FA installed and maintained ones seem to be of a much higher standard than the ones you find at schools.
 
Anecdotal but see a snapped ligament, not from challengers, at least once a season on artificial grass. On grass think it's one in the last 10 years.
 

Interpretation​

The overall incidence of football injuries is lower on artificial turf than on grass. Based on these findings, the risk of injury can't be used as an argument against artificial turf when considering the optimal playing surface for football.

Taken from The Lancet following some research. May 2023.

I think you can find research projects which support both arguments at the moment.

As an aside I play Walking Football twice a week on 3G pitches and have been doing so since 2015. Recognising that it’s a different (but similar in so many ways) game I have seen 3 serious Achilles injuries during that time just through playing (not from challenges) We do see a lot of muscle injury but we are senior players aged from 49 into our 70s. But it is definitely the preferred surface for us senior players (and referees) at this juncture.

Interestingly the NHS are currently conducting a UEFA funded survey/research project into WF to see whether it does actually provide the perceived benefits of improved fitness and mental wellness. It’s also looking at the types of n jury sustained by those engaged in WF.
 
Hilly1618 said:

Interpretation​

The overall incidence of football injuries is lower on artificial turf than on grass. Based on these findings, the risk of injury can't be used as an argument against artificial turf when considering the optimal playing surface for football.

Taken from The Lancet following some research. May 2023.

I think you can find research projects which support both arguments at the moment.

As an aside I play Walking Football twice a week on 3G pitches and have been doing so since 2015. Recognising that it’s a different (but similar in so many ways) game I have seen 3 serious Achilles injuries during that time just through playing (not from challenges) We do see a lot of muscle injury but we are senior players aged from 49 into our 70s. But it is definitely the preferred surface for us senior players (and referees) at this juncture.

Interestingly the NHS are currently conducting a UEFA funded survey/research project into WF to see whether it does actually provide the perceived benefits of improved fitness and mental wellness. It’s also looking at the types of n jury sustained by those engaged in WF.
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Just to mention that the reason why World Cup games in certain other countries on 3G but can’t be played on the EFL is as far as I believe because the PFA are against it, fearing that by playing on them will shorten the career of their members. If there was scientific/medical proof that this is no longer the case, then surely their view would change and 3G allowed on the EFL?
 
Hi. Interesting topic. I'm 57. I ref 3-4 times per week on average, usually covering 4.5-5.5miles per match. Hip replacement 14 years ago. Suffer discomfort in legs after refereeing now but can manage it. However I actually prefer artificial surfaces because I find the more predictable versus grassroots grass pitches which can often have lumps, bumps and divots.
 
DavidObs said:
Just to mention that the reason why World Cup games in certain other countries on 3G but can’t be played on the EFL is as far as I believe because the PFA are against it, fearing that by playing on them will shorten the career of their members. If there was scientific/medical proof that this is no longer the case, then surely their view would change and 3G allowed on the EFL?
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As another poster mentioned, there's conflicting research and some of it points to a higher risk of soft tissue injury. This is just one, but there's plenty out there (as a previous poster said, there's research in favour and against) - https://nflpa.com/posts/only-natural-grass-can-level-the-nfls-playing-field
 
I think the comparison of 3G Vs high kevel grass surfaces is very different to 3G Vs grassroots pitches. Unfortunately I dont ref on any professional grass pitches so my benchmark is 3G Vs grassroots park or school or club pitches. For me I prefer 3G because its predictable versus the divots, bumps and troughs in grassroots surfaces and when its wet I find grass more slippery and when very dry grass pitches can go like concrete. So for all this reasons I prefer 3G over grass everytime. If I was reffing on pro pitches with full time groundstaff and focused pitch programmes I suspect grass might be more forgiving.
 
Dicky Herts said:
I think the comparison of 3G Vs high kevel grass surfaces is very different to 3G Vs grassroots pitches. Unfortunately I dont ref on any professional grass pitches so my benchmark is 3G Vs grassroots park or school or club pitches. For me I prefer 3G because its predictable versus the divots, bumps and troughs in grassroots surfaces and when its wet I find grass more slippery and when very dry grass pitches can go like concrete. So for all this reasons I prefer 3G over grass everytime. If I was reffing on pro pitches with full time groundstaff and focused pitch programmes I suspect grass might be more forgiving.
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I've refereed in quite a few professional team stadiums now and they're very different from grass pitches. If anything they're less forgiving and firmer due to the grass/sand/hybrid grass ratio. I felt they were harder on my leg muscles, and the ball rolls quicker on them. Local grass pitches are slow and heavy in comparison.
 
I don't know what it is that causes my DOMS after 3G pitches but I certainly don't feel it has anything to do with firmness, as I run approx 50km a week on concrete which doesn't give me any issues at all.
 
A metastudy from the U.S. National institutes of Health publication database: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35593739/

Bottom line (and in my personal experience. over 25 yrs): Artificial turf is a big problem, especially as you get older; knees, shins, and achilles and ankles, but especially knees.

Hokas saved me, and allowed me to come back onto the pitch after severe shin splints and an Achilles injury. I'm 75, but since I switched to the Hokas, I feel half that age on the pitch.

Hoka don't make ref shoes specifically, but they have a model for virtually any surface and some are available in black. The Challenger 7 is worth a look, assuming you all have the same model names in the UK. The Speedgoat is usually available in black as well. Not cheap, but...
 
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