A&H

CHE Spurs

Well done the Premier League for showing grassroots referee's all over the country that pulling someone to the ground by their hair is perfectly acceptable
🤦‍♂️
 
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JamesL said:
Has anyone got a clip as I haven't seen this incident (I have seen a still) but not the actual clip.
My questions, was the ball in play when the hair pull happened?
If it was then of course the outcome is Def DFK and red card. If not, then it's a red card and CK restart.
Could this be jotted down to a VAR protocol issue, in that play had restarted after the offence had happened?
I know the protocol allows for that to happen, but the goal would still stand so perhaps it was an error in VAR application, or otherwise. I can't see how this is not viewed as VC just based on the stills.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1558874464426795008

Not the Greatest of clips. I think the ball was in play at the time this happened.
 
GraemeS said:
And helpfully the clip finishes with AT in shot seemingly staring directly at it...
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Seemingly is an important word here. You can't be 100% sure where the eyes are looking at from the back of someone's head, I think his focus is more on the pack than the two players in question.

No excuses for the VAR though but then you got the grey area of hair pulling is not in the laws of the game so when it has been punished, it has been a mix of yellow and red cards as punishment. I think a slight tug should be classed as USB so a yellow but a more aggressive grab should be deemed as VC... I mean if you see people getting their hair aggressively pulled in public, it would be deemed as violence but not on a football field seemingly.
 
while a glimmer of transparency is nice, I’m really underwhelmed by so much of what he wrote. Nothing in that helps a reader understand how the VAR process is supposed to work. Or even suggests he really understands it. What “few seconds”? The Whole system is designed so that the VAR can have play delayed to get an adequate look. And the way he writes that he should have let Taylor look for himself totally feeds the fan concept that the VAR can just let the ref take a look, as opposed to anything than links what he should have done to actual VAR protocols. If this is the level of his column, I don’t think it is going to do anything to educate fans on how this process is supposed to work. Good luck Webb.
 
socal lurker said:
while a glimmer of transparency is nice, I’m really underwhelmed by so much of what he wrote. Nothing in that helps a reader understand how the VAR process is supposed to work. Or even suggests he really understands it. What “few seconds”? The Whole system is designed so that the VAR can have play delayed to get an adequate look. And the way he writes that he should have let Taylor look for himself totally feeds the fan concept that the VAR can just let the ref take a look, as opposed to anything than links what he should have done to actual VAR protocols. If this is the level of his column, I don’t think it is going to do anything to educate fans on how this process is supposed to work. Good luck Webb.
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You are assuming that PGMOL operate the VAR protocol the same as other countries. I suspect they are told they have to quickly check and that is what Mike Dean is alluding to. As I've said many times before, I find it difficult to blame EPL referees for the failures of VAR because they are given constantly changing messaging from their (weak) management.
 
Even more baffled now that he has come out and said he didn’t deem hair pulling a violent act.
 
So is Mike Dean going to throw other referees under the bus this season in this column? Or is he only going to talk about situations in games he does?
 
cwyeary said:
So is Mike Dean going to throw other referees under the bus this season in this column? Or is he only going to talk about situations in games he does?
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I don't think he thrown anyone under the bus? Just basically admitting to his error but it does not make good reading that a experience official like him does not think hair pulling like that is VC and that seemingly he only had a few seconds to study the footage... I did not see the game so how long was the VAR check roughly?

I personally don't think we should read the "few seconds" remark too literally and its nothing more than a poor decision by Dean.

The fact he's not doing VAR duties this weekend is probably coincidental, Mason was not on VAR last weekend for example.
 
For me that article is just to give excuses and given he knows his excuse does stand he is also saying I should have... Yeah ok, you didn't consider it a VC, do you consider it a foul at all (given everyone else considers it VC)? It's a clear pull. Ball in or out of play is not a question as it is factual. If it is a clear foul then it is a penalty and also must be reviewed.

The problem with PGMOL is that everyone in it is not on the same page let alone being on the same page with the rest of the world.
 
RustyRef said:
You are assuming that PGMOL operate the VAR protocol the same as other countries. I suspect they are told they have to quickly check and that is what Mike Dean is alluding to. As I've said many times before, I find it difficult to blame EPL referees for the failures of VAR because they are given constantly changing messaging from their (weak) management.
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Given how poor PGMOL VAR usage is compared to just about where else in the world, that could be true. But if VARs are being told they only have 10 seconds to decide if something is VC, it sure would have been nice for him to say that rather than a cryptic explanation (excuse?) about only a few seconds.
 
one said:
For me that article is just to give excuses and given he knows his excuse does stand he is also saying I should have... Yeah ok, you didn't consider it a VC, do you consider it a foul at all (given everyone else considers it VC)? It's a clear pull. Ball in or out of play is not a question as it is factual. If it is a clear foul then it is a penalty and also must be reviewed.

The problem with PGMOL is that everyone in it is not on the same page let alone being on the same page with the rest of the world.
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It's a defensive free kick which is outside remit of VAR.
 
one said:
Even in sports considered violent in nature like boxing, kick boxing, UFC etc hair pulling is outlawed. That just goes a long way in terms of determining if it's considered a violent act.
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Like to see a boxer pull hair with those gloves on but an excellent analogy, none the less. 👍
 
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