A&H

worthy of a red?

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
At a cup final game yesterday i witnessed a player being sent off (straight red) for the comment "you're **** ref".

I'm a VERY strict referee on language but for me i would sin bin that. If he's said "you're F****** **** ref" i'd be on orange.

The assistant (whom i've known for over 10 years) was amazed and thought it was overkill. The player did shout this and he was about 10 yards away (player to the refereee).

Your thoughts?
 
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Assume the censored word is sh!t. Was the game tense? Was the player having a go at the referee all game? Had he been warned before? I really have to be there to say the red was not deserved. Yes in most my games it would be a yellow. But I won't mark down a red here if the referee tells me s/he was offended.
 
Is being called **** offensive, insulting or abusive? I’d say so. As for f*cking sh*t being orange? That’s very very lenient. Any player using the F word towards me and about me whilst doing so is going off. “He’s f*cking taken him out ref” isn’t the same as calling you “sh*t” the latter is worse.
 
Thresholds isn't it?

I've been reading some OFFINABUS dismissals recently and have seen some referees dismiss for 'you're w--k ref' or 'you're a pr--k' etc.

I may not dismiss for that, depending on circumstances, but I don't object to a referee dismissing for it. It fits the criteria, it's offensive/insulting/abusive, so knock it on the head.
 
Thresholds isn't it?

I've been reading some OFFINABUS dismissals recently and have seen some referees dismiss for 'you're w--k ref' or 'you're a pr--k' etc.

I may not dismiss for that, depending on circumstances, but I don't object to a referee dismissing for it. It fits the criteria, it's offensive/insulting/abusive, so knock it on the head.
Huh. For me ”you’re a pr—k” ref, I have no problems with red. It’s more a personal insult for me. ”You’re w—k/s—t” feels a lot less direct, and a lot more likely for me to go with sin bin.
 
”You’re w—k/s—t” feels a lot less direct, and a lot more likely for me to go with sin bin.

That's fine.

But for me, indirect insults are still insults.

I've had disagreement on this before but for example; If a player calls you a cheat, you send them off. Yet, I've had colleagues say they wouldn't take action, or would only caution if a player says 'how much are they paying you today ref?' because, that's apparently less direct than outright calling you a cheat.

In my eyes, they're one and the same. So, I don't object to referees dismissing for indirect insult/abuse basically.
 
As I used to say to my players when I managed, don't give the referees a chance as you don't know how they will react. Some will laugh it off, some will yellow card, some will go straight red, but if you don't say anything you have nothing to worry about.

Classic example, I got sent to the stand for saying "that's a bit inconsistent {referee's name}", that is verbatim, I didn't swear, I didn't even shout. My own fault as I knew the reputation that referee had, but very, very few referees would send off for that. Although he then told me that he was reporting me as a referee not a manager, consequently getting his report in an awful mess, and the case was laughed out by the CFA.

But if you tell a referee he is "sh!t" you are taking a risk and only have yourself to blame if he reacts.
 
If someone says to me: you’re sh*t - I’ll generally YC/Caution as it feels like undermining authority - but in certain circumstances, it could be more.

If someone says you are a ………. - that makes it personal, and will 9/10 end up with a rc. E.g. “You’re a f***ing pr**k” - as it is insulting me as a person, and not my performance.

The thing about OFFINABUS is it is personal tolerance levels.
 
Alright boys I am a tad bit confused, since dissents are rare occurrences for me when I referee. So what constitutes me giving a yellow for sin and a red for OFFINABUS. If i get called a 'C*nt' or 'F*ck off', I would go for Red but what other language would a yellow/caution be?
 
Alright boys I am a tad bit confused, since dissents are rare occurrences for me when I referee. So what constitutes me giving a yellow for sin and a red for OFFINABUS. If i get called a 'C*nt' or 'F*ck off', I would go for Red but what other language would a yellow/caution be?
Whatever the context requires
 
Huh. For me ”you’re a pr—k” ref, I have no problems with red. It’s more a personal insult for me. ”You’re w—k/s—t” feels a lot less direct, and a lot more likely for me to go with sin bin.
The later being that little more likely to be true!!!
 
Alright boys I am a tad bit confused, since dissents are rare occurrences for me when I referee. So what constitutes me giving a yellow for sin and a red for OFFINABUS. If i get called a 'C*nt' or 'F*ck off', I would go for Red but what other language would a yellow/caution be?
There's no right or wrong answer (and I wouldn't say "alright boys" as these days we do have female referees).

You have to decide whether any of the following apply ...

  • Did you find the words used offensive
  • Were you insulted by the words
  • Did you find the comments to be abusive
I personally have a very high tolerance level, and it generally needs one of the two c words to have me reaching for my back pocket, otherwise I will just tend to give it back with interest. But that has come from experience, and when I was younger I sent someone off for calling me a f***ing clown.

A classic example for me is when a player came running after me and shouted "you're the worst f***ing referee I've ever seen". My hand went to my left pocket for yellow, whereas others would legitimately go straight red for that, but before I got the card out he added "and you are a f***ing bald c***". Whilst part of that is technically correct, and ironically he was bald himself, the left hand was removed and right hand delved into back pocket to pull out the red.
 
Can you give an example for that, as that would help me better understand it. Thanks
There are lots of threads about this. You have to decide and every referee in a different context might be different. You should consider things like: aggression, frustration, intent, target, who can hear/see, temperature of the match, match context, potential for escalation... and don't lose sight of pejorative language (racism, homophobia, misogyny) that signposts a straight red.
 
There's no right or wrong answer (and I wouldn't say "alright boys" as these days we do have female referees).

You have to decide whether any of the following apply ...

  • Did you find the words used offensive
  • Were you insulted by the words
  • Did you find the comments to be abusive
I personally have a very high tolerance level, and it generally needs one of the two c words to have me reaching for my back pocket, otherwise I will just tend to give it back with interest. But that has come from experience, and when I was younger I sent someone off for calling me a f***ing clown.

A classic example for me is when a player came running after me and shouted "you're the worst f***ing referee I've ever seen". My hand went to my left pocket for yellow, whereas others would legitimately go straight red for that, but before I got the card out he added "and you are a f***ing bald c***". Whilst part of that is technically correct, and ironically he was bald himself, the left hand was removed and right hand delved into back pocket to pull out the red.
Alright, next time will say something more intended towards all genders. I can understand what you are saying from this. I thought I had good tolerance till I did a friendly over the summer and realized I have a small to mild tolerance, but as I have refereed more I have begun to understand that you need to know about when to take something as insult or abusive. But sometimes with what people are saying it is borderline.

Like for example; 'Are you blind ref', this can be said differently, this comment is mild and I usually reply with no but are you? But this can be said differently like 'Ref that call was sh*t are you blind' leening for dissent and 'Ref that was f*ck*ng sh*t are you blind' is a red. But it just depends. Thanks for the advice
 
Alright, next time will say something more intended towards all genders. I can understand what you are saying from this. I thought I had good tolerance till I did a friendly over the summer and realized I have a small to mild tolerance, but as I have refereed more I have begun to understand that you need to know about when to take something as insult or abusive. But sometimes with what people are saying it is borderline.

Like for example; 'Are you blind ref', this can be said differently, this comment is mild and I usually reply with no but are you? But this can be said differently like 'Ref that call was sh*t are you blind' leening for dissent and 'Ref that was f*ck*ng sh*t are you blind' is a red. But it just depends. Thanks for the advice

As I said, your view will probably change over time. If someone says "are you blind ref" I'm quite likely to reply with a jokey "who said that", whereas years ago I'd have been reaching for a card. You should really get a gut feeling when something is said as to how you are going to react to it, if it is going to be red it should have you immediately going "whoooaa I don't like that". If your reaction isn't that immediate it is more likely to be yellow.
 
As I said, your view will probably change over time. If someone says "are you blind ref" I'm quite likely to reply with a jokey "who said that", whereas years ago I'd have been reaching for a card. You should really get a gut feeling when something is said as to how you are going to react to it, if it is going to be red it should have you immediately going "whoooaa I don't like that". If your reaction isn't that immediate it is more likely to be yellow.
I wear hearing aids and reply with, “I am deaf, not blind!“
 
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