A&H

Man U v Villa

Jorik0907

Well-Known Member
Yet another great example of why (I'm a massive fan of VAR myself) VAR does not really seem to function that fantastically in the PL. For once, I think two clear and obvious cases were missed. Oliver gives PK for a trip on Pogba, although the contact is initiated by Pogba, VAR probably decides it's not C&O to overrule. https://streamvi.com/watch/1609536200

Second one, Mings elbows Pogba in the box. No excuses there, even if it isn't a red card review, it's obviously a penalty. We've seen cards and fouls given for much less contact to the face over the last couple of seasons. https://streamable.com/wg2wx7

Anogher question, not really related to this game, but I feel Oliver has dropped a bit over the last season or so. Used to think he was by far one of the best referees in the world, now I'm not too sure. Still really good, mind you but yeah.
 
The Referee Store
The penalty was spot on for me. This screenshot on my phone shows the moment the contact was made.
The position of the defenders foot next to the opposite foot of pogbas suggests he’s stepped across him and left no where for the running leg to go, to me it’s a trip. Pogba is in control of the ball and Louis steps across and forces the contact while looking like he isn’t.
 

Attachments

  • 5570C9D6-A442-4EE0-ABB7-CAC0DDBDDE0D.png
    5570C9D6-A442-4EE0-ABB7-CAC0DDBDDE0D.png
    2 MB · Views: 3
Yeah I'm fine with the pen (Hate VAR and united so no bias here at all!). Looks to me like luiz clips pogbas ankle which causes the trip.
 
Yeah I'm fine with the pen (Hate VAR and united so no bias here at all!). Looks to me like luiz clips pogbas ankle which causes the trip.
Thought so too, but there isn't. Only visible contact is Pogba clipping Luiz with his left leg, which then causes him to trip himself up. I reaaly think Luiz doesn't even touch Pogba otherwise. Not a dive but certainly not a foul

Edit : the fact that two people are fine with the pen probably doesn't make it clear and obvious. Still think the elbow is egregious
 
Thought so too, but there isn't. Only visible contact is Pogba clipping Luiz with his left leg, which then causes him to trip himself up. I reaaly think Luiz doesn't even touch Pogba otherwise. Not a dive but certainly not a foul

Edit : the fact that two people are fine with the pen probably doesn't make it clear and obvious. Still think the elbow is egregious
I don't think you're UK based. I think it's fair to say that those based outside the UK tolerate VAR better than the rest of us
Your OP typifies the problem of subjectivity however; which can't be fixed IMO
 
I don't think you're UK based. I think it's fair to say that those based outside the UK tolerate VAR better than the rest of us
Your OP typifies the problem of subjectivity however; which can't be fixed IMO
You're right on both counts, not UK based and regarding the problem of subjectivity. Happens that I'm fully convinced this isn't a pen, so for me it's clear and obvious, but that sentence is inherently contradictory: how can something be clear and obvious in one's opinion?

And yeah, think VAR functions better in most other leagues and I'm not sure why
 
It's a pen. I thought for the arms initially which I wouldn't have been happy with. But the trip is a good spot and is definitely a pen. Throw the arms and the trip together it's sloppy defending and has to be a foul. If not given VAR stays out of it too I think, though as clearly its a very subjective call.
Agree the Mings on pogba is a foul, and I think should have been reviewed. Off the ball (the player in front of pogba wins the header) so can't be considered incidental but no one made a big thing of it so would probably have been a surprise if decision if reviewed so perhaps why VAR remained quiet on that one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARF
They are both penalties for me.

The first one, for the trip, I don't classify that as Pogba initiating contact. If you allow that, it will become a tactic for defending. Run very close behind/side to the opponent with the ball and get your/his legs tangled.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ARF
Thought so too, but there isn't. Only visible contact is Pogba clipping Luiz with his left leg, which then causes him to trip himself up. I reaaly think Luiz doesn't even touch Pogba otherwise. Not a dive but certainly not a foul

Edit : the fact that two people are fine with the pen probably doesn't make it clear and obvious. Still think the elbow is egregious
Three people are fine with it. I actually thought the penalty was justified for the pullback on Pogba. Maybe not the most stonewall penalty, but for me definitely enough to justify a call.
 
Oh well, doesn't happen often that I'm the dissenting opinion so I'm not too big to admit that maybe it is a pen then :) There's a reason I'm not on that pitch. (or any pitch for the last couple of months really)
 
The Mings on Pogba was disgraceful.
MO should have reviewed the Pogba pen himself.

There were two other moments of madness from MO, both errors in law I think:

The Villa goal: quick free kick, blocked by a Utd player (a tactic MO should have cone down hard on as Utd blocking free kicks was ridiculous in this game)... anyway, Villa player quickly respots (with the hand IIRC) the ball and quickly chips it through. Surely, this should have either been play on, YC, on the whistle (or hand ball)...?

Not Matic IIRC but one of the Utd yellows late in the game - when MO had lost it and should have already warned McT for cumulative before he went off, should have warned Matic for targeting wee Jack - anyway, YC challenge, MO shows the yellow, while the DFK is taken quick, he waves play on. Surely it’s either stop play to show the YC or allow quick FK and show the YC at next stoppage! School boy stuff.

Unfortunately this was the worst I’ve seen from MO.

Credit to Wan Biss though. I echoed the call that he can’t attack and he assisted the only ”real” goal of the game - the other two goals being enabled by poor officiating IMHO.

Thankfully it was better than the Everton game which could have done with a 7 minute VAR paint drying moment to liven it up!
 
The Mings on Pogba was disgraceful.
MO should have reviewed the Pogba pen himself.

There were two other moments of madness from MO, both errors in law I think:

The Villa goal: quick free kick, blocked by a Utd player (a tactic MO should have cone down hard on as Utd blocking free kicks was ridiculous in this game)... anyway, Villa player quickly respots (with the hand IIRC) the ball and quickly chips it through. Surely, this should have either been play on, YC, on the whistle (or hand ball)...?

Not Matic IIRC but one of the Utd yellows late in the game - when MO had lost it and should have already warned McT for cumulative before he went off, should have warned Matic for targeting wee Jack - anyway, YC challenge, MO shows the yellow, while the DFK is taken quick, he waves play on. Surely it’s either stop play to show the YC or allow quick FK and show the YC at next stoppage! School boy stuff.

Unfortunately this was the worst I’ve seen from MO.

Credit to Wan Biss though. I echoed the call that he can’t attack and he assisted the only ”real” goal of the game - the other two goals being enabled by poor officiating IMHO.

Thankfully it was better than the Everton game which could have done with a 7 minute VAR paint drying moment to liven it up!
Saw all of those. Was going to post them here but thought I have been criticising EPL referees a lot on here so I decided not too. MO should really get mid 6's (if that) if for this game. Too many KMI's went wrong. Some advantages he played also puzzled me. Any referee who thinks a team retaining posession to pass back to own defensive line is better off than wipping a free kick into the PA should rethink their advantage assessment.
 
Saw all of those. Was going to post them here but thought I have been criticising EPL referees a lot on here so I decided not too. MO should really get mid 6's (if that) if for this game. Too many KMI's went wrong. Some advantages he played also puzzled me. Any referee who thinks a team retaining posession to pass back to own defensive line is better off than wipping a free kick into the PA should rethink their advantage assessment.

That's generally what ball playing PL teams want though. You'll see it a good example of a possession advantage in almost every game I reckon.
 
That's generally what ball playing PL teams want though. You'll see it a good example of a possession advantage in almost every game I reckon.
Have had this discussion in the past so I won't go down that road again. A couple of advantages played in this game wasn't quite in the category.
 
The Mings on Pogba was disgraceful.
MO should have reviewed the Pogba pen himself.

There were two other moments of madness from MO, both errors in law I think:

The Villa goal: quick free kick, blocked by a Utd player (a tactic MO should have cone down hard on as Utd blocking free kicks was ridiculous in this game)... anyway, Villa player quickly respots (with the hand IIRC) the ball and quickly chips it through. Surely, this should have either been play on, YC, on the whistle (or hand ball)...?

Not Matic IIRC but one of the Utd yellows late in the game - when MO had lost it and should have already warned McT for cumulative before he went off, should have warned Matic for targeting wee Jack - anyway, YC challenge, MO shows the yellow, while the DFK is taken quick, he waves play on. Surely it’s either stop play to show the YC or allow quick FK and show the YC at next stoppage! School boy stuff.

Unfortunately this was the worst I’ve seen from MO.

Credit to Wan Biss though. I echoed the call that he can’t attack and he assisted the only ”real” goal of the game - the other two goals being enabled by poor officiating IMHO.

Thankfully it was better than the Everton game which could have done with a 7 minute VAR paint drying moment to liven it up!
Disagree entirely with everything you’ve said. Thought MO did everything he could to keep the game flowing and succeeded in providing an entertaining football match.

Good job it’s all about opinions isn’t it.
 
Not a penalty for me ,I just think it’s not clear enough it’s almost as if you’ve really got to dissect it from every angle to justify a decision you’ve already made,
the elbow looked clumsy and intentional therefore a straightforward red card for me
 
Not a penalty for me ,I just think it’s not clear enough it’s almost as if you’ve really got to dissect it from every angle to justify a decision you’ve already made,
the elbow looked clumsy and intentional therefore a straightforward red card for me

In fairness, MO probably dissected it before making the decision.
 
They are both penalties for me.

The first one, for the trip, I don't classify that as Pogba initiating contact. If you allow that, it will become a tactic for defending. Run very close behind/side to the opponent with the ball and get your/his legs tangled.
But the attacker's tactic is to run very close to the opponent (or run across the path of a chasing defender)...
 
But the attacker's tactic is to run very close to the opponent (or run across the path of a chasing defender)...
It's kind of like who has the right of way when you are driving. It has much to do with who is in front and who has control of the ball.
 
It's kind of like who has the right of way when you are driving. It has much to do with who is in front and who has control of the ball.
But attackers are just swerving into the defender's lane... it's like an insurance scam!
 
Back
Top