A&H

Fulham v Liverpool

bloovee

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Fulham penalty shout at 0.30... ball or leg?

And Liverpool penalty at 2.50. Where should the defender have put his arm?

(Fulham's own commentators...)

 
The Referee Store
Fulham penalty is a classic example of something where it doesn't meet the C&O threshold either way. The second angle shown during the VAR check in particular seems to suggest he might have got the ball legally. I think the correct thing to do in this situation is uphold the on field decision - was very surprised to see Marriner sent to the screen and quite impressed that he had the strength of his convictions to say that he didn't see enough clear evidence for an overturn.

Liverpool penalty - to answer your question: not out to the side. If his arms are in front of his body, across his chest or even down by his sides, that's not being given. Just look at the guy next to him - if it had hit his arms, it would not have been a penalty, as those arms are in an appropriate position. As soon as they're up at shoulder height and making himself bigger, it's a clear penalty. If his arms aren't there, the ball is going through the gap between those two players and requires a save, I don't see that as a particularly controversial call.

The other obvious question to raise from this match is if the Fulham goal should have been disallowed. There's a good shout for a push on Salah in the build up - go to 1:07 in these highlights and you can just see it at the start of the clip leading up the goal, although I think a more honest/neutral edit would start that clip a second or two earlier to show it more clearly. (EDIT: actually, you can see it more clearly in the replay at 1:34, but although that clip is better timed, it's a worse angle)
Yes it's soft, but as I often say in the park on a Sunday morning, "A soft foul is still a foul".
 
It's a penalty for me, but I think @GraemeS is right in that it doesn't necessarily meet the clear and obvious threshold. Good to see that Marriner didn't change his decision just because he'd gone over to the RRA. No issues with the Liverpool pen (as much as I don't like the law that leads to that decision).

On the Salah "push" there's no way I'd be giving that. Salah has done his usual exaggerated jump to make it look like more of a foul than it was; would've been incredibly soft.
 
A really interesting game for me.

I thought it was a penalty live, but after its not been given I don't think it's C&O - given or not, its not overturnable either way. The lack of appeals were really weird too.

That's about as much a foul on Salah as I am in the Select Group. You don't retain titles by moaning about stuff like that when you were lucky to take a point from the game - move on Liverpool.

Referees are paid to apply the LOTG first and foremost - his arm was making his body unnaturally bigger, it's a penalty. Pretty simply.
 
is it just me who thinks the liverpool pen is an absolute stonewaller? would have been a pen last year or 5 years ago?

kamara jumps with his arms away from his body and it hits them, easy
 
I'm surprised the referee didn't see the push on Salah. If the Liverpool players surrounded the referee like the Man Utd players usually do, VAR probably would've looked at it.
 
I'm intrigued by the immediate response to me bringing up the Salah push - multiple referees who immediately say it was a push, but that they still wouldn't give it. As I previous said, a soft foul is still a foul. And if a player is stood in place waiting for a high ball to drop so they can control it, you're not allowed to just run up and push them in the back, however gently.
 
I'm intrigued by the immediate response to me bringing up the Salah push - multiple referees who immediately say it was a push, but that they still wouldn't give it. As I previous said, a soft foul is still a foul. And if a player is stood in place waiting for a high ball to drop so they can control it, you're not allowed to just run up and push them in the back, however gently.
I'm not sure that all referees at top level would take view of every soft foul needing to be given. It seems to me many of the most senior officilas use their judgement as to when something needs penalising and when they can 'let a bit go'. That's one thing I've heard former referees say when they've been asked about having a referee in each half for instance and they explain that their tolerance level will change depending on what sort of game it is.
 
Fulham appeal, I'd give it and I bet that's what the the VAR thought "I'd give it" rather than everyone (or at least 9 out of 10) would give it. And hence the problem with EPL VAR. Anyway the reason I'd give it is that even if he did 'get the ball', he also got the player.

Handball, clear pen.

Salah push, yes it was a push, was it careless, 50-50. You'd expect more strength from PL players there. Fulham player didn't do himself any favours by using two hands on the back, a gentle fair shoulder nudge on the back would have left nothing to debate about. Also if the ref called it straight away no one would have bat an eyelid. But absolutely no way that should be reviewed.
 
Fulham appeal, I'd give it and I bet that's what the the VAR thought "I'd give it" rather than everyone (or at least 9 out of 10) would give it. And hence the problem with EPL VAR. Anyway the reason I'd give it is that even if he did 'get the ball', he also got the player.

Handball, clear pen.

Salah push, yes it was a push, was it careless, 50-50. You'd expect more strength from PL players there. Fulham player didn't do himself any favours by using two hands on the back, a gentle fair shoulder nudge on the back would have left nothing to debate about. Also if the ref called it straight away no one would have bat an eyelid. But absolutely no way that should be reviewed.
Having seen it from several angles, my opinion is that the defender played only the ball, then the attacker lost his balance and fell onto the defender . . . corner kick for me.
 
Having seen it from several angles, my opinion is that the defender played only the ball, then the attacker lost his balance and fell onto the defender . . . corner kick for me.

there is one angle which shows the defender making contact with the attackers boot before the ball
 
Should a yellow card not have bene shown to Fulham player who handled the free-kick? Shot was on target and would have been consistent with what we have seen in Europe.
 
Both are penalties for me, though the one for Fulham doesn’t mean C&O mistake. Stonewall penalty against Fulham for handball though

the push on Salah, I’d be given that in my games. Ball dropping on top of two players and it’s a clear 2 arm push to prevent Salah getting to the ball. I’m not sure what else is needed to give that to be honest
 
I've been struggling with this one as I just can't see a foul and for me Fabinho plays the ball. If he did make contact on the attacker first I would argue that countless replays have struggled to comprehensively prove that and therefore it can't be described as even close to being a clear and obvious error. I was amazed that Lee Mason called Andre Marriner to the monitor and I remain amazed, but fair play to Andre for standing by his first view..

The Liverpool penalty is clear, the defender jumps with his arm up and it hits it. No debate at all under the current laws, these days if you are in the wall and are worried about the ball hitting you in the face you really need to speak to your manager and ask not to be in the wall.

Fulham's goal is all that is wrong with modern football, apart from the officials didn't fall for it. Salah felt the slightest of contact on his back and flung himself forward, it wasn't a foul but I fully expected VAR would give it and was pleasantly surprised when they didn't.
 
Should a yellow card not have bene shown to Fulham player who handled the free-kick? Shot was on target and would have been consistent with what we have seen in Europe.

Who wants to be consistent with those clowns?
Absolutely no requirement for a YC here
 
Handball stopping a shot going towards goal would definitely fall under yellow card for stopping an attack
I think you’d be able to make a case for it but what does the game (in domestic football anyway) expect - were there players demanding a card?
 
Salah, ref saw the theatrical response and not the two handed push because of his angle I think. I would whistle that. Obvious foul for me - the two handed push gives it away - even if the response is disproportionate.

Why did VAR not give it? Because VAR is rubbish, the goalposts constantly move! It’s minimum interference and not re-refereeing the game one match, and then mm decisions the next.
 
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