A&H

Liv v Utd

Yes, right now players can "appeal" to the VAR (unlimited times) by crowding the referee. In the same Liverpool vs Man Utd match, Maguire was pulling Van Dijk's shirt in his own penalty area. Van Dijk only appealed for a corner kick. I feel that if the Liverpool players crowded the referee appealing for a penalty kick, a VAR check would've been launched. And, I believe the result would've been a penalty (the shirt pull was blatant).
Everything is checked by the silent check process.
It's possible that a more vigorous approach might have initiated a review but if its as blatant as you say then that should have happened anyway
 
The Referee Store
Everything is checked

That's the sound bite I keep hearing but in practice it's not possible to check everything and some things have been missed. One sure way to ensure the VAR doesn't miss something is to crowd the referee and draw attention to a particular incident.
 
Good but I still wish everyone crowding was given a visible yellow on the day and a red for any OffInAbus.
The team knows that a VAR review can look at offences by the attack in the build up to a goal. All that is required is for Maguire to calmly confirm with the ref that it is being undertaken. No need for any of it. They don't crowd and berate their teammate that messed up the clearance so why do it to a ref
And do you think in that case the goal would have been disallowed? Honest answer.

The problem is, in the name of game control, referee decisions favour misbehaving players. And because it is easy for us, we don't do players who behave and do the right thing any favours. We have trained players this way by years of poor 'player management' and 'game control' practices.
 
And do you think in that case the goal would have been disallowed? Honest answer.

The problem is, in the name of game control, referee decisions favour misbehaving players. And because it is easy for us, we don't do players who behave and do the right thing any favours. We have trained players this way by years of poor 'player management' and 'game control' practices.

Honest answer: as there has been a breech of Law then yes I would like to live in a world where such a request would be treated fairly and upheld. Else we're dooming ourselves to player crowding
 
We have to figure out how to eliminate player crowding. It's such a black mark on the game.

While this is a draconian idea and would never practically work in the Premier League or other professional leagues, I'd love to see any situation where a second player from the same team joining in a referee confrontation results in an automatic caution for the captain. Yes, that includes a second caution.

I would imagine that card accumulation for the captain would be a sufficient incentive for teams to stop crowding the referee like they are doing.
 
Utd should be charged. But some other team will do the exact same thing next week and nothing will happen.
Also Henderson showed it's okay to tell the officials to **** off several times.
So I'm gonna go ahead and call the charge b******t lip service by the FA. Just hand out the £3k fine and go back to one of your campaigns where you pretend to care about discrimination at the lower levels.
 
Good but I still wish everyone crowding was given a visible yellow on the day and a red for any OffInAbus.
The team knows that a VAR review can look at offences by the attack in the build up to a goal. All that is required is for Maguire to calmly confirm with the ref that it is being undertaken. No need for any of it. They don't crowd and berate their teammate that messed up the clearance so why do it to a ref
Exactly this. It does my head in that United have been charged yet on the day only 1 caution was given for dissent during that
 
Seems to me there are two possible paths to actual change:
1. Refs are told to start giving out cards regularly for this, and behavior will ultimately change with the new expectations.
2. League's start dishing out real after the fact sanctions to players (or teams) who participate. Suspend a few players for a game, or dock a few teams a point in the standings, and the message will get heard.

But just continuing to say that behavior is unacceptable is totally meaningless. Landon Donovon was famously asked why players behaved like that towards refs, and he honestly said something along the lines of "because they let us." But we can't blame the refs on this--no ref can make this a personal crusade; it has to come from the top and be supported.
 
Utd should be charged. But some other team will do the exact same thing next week and nothing will happen.
Also Henderson showed it's okay to tell the officials to **** off several times.
So I'm gonna go ahead and call the charge b******t lip service by the FA. Just hand out the £3k fine and go back to one of your campaigns where you pretend to care about discrimination at the lower levels.
I've put it to an EPL referee (a few years back), that they make our lives difficult by allowing abuse to be normalised. The response back, was that with tens of thousands in attendance and mic chat, it's difficult to hear what the players say. Disingenuous imo
 
There is no appetite to deal with crowding or abusing the referee in the professional game. Because the teams don't benefit from having their top players banned because the referee doesn't like to be sworn at.

It's not right, but that's just the way it is.
 
I've put it to an EPL referee (a few years back), that they make our lives difficult by allowing abuse to be normalised. The response back, was that with tens of thousands in attendance and mic chat, it's difficult to hear what the players say. Disingenuous imo
I realise that sometimes a camera can focus on a player shouting F*** Off but the referee can be some 40+ yards away by now, but I've never really bought into the excuse... based on most Assessors who ever watched me who are able to hear a gnat fart the word b*ll*cks from the far end of the ground and then ask me at half-time why I didn't tell him off.
 
I realise that sometimes a camera can focus on a player shouting F*** Off but the referee can be some 40+ yards away by now, but I've never really bought into the excuse... based on most Assessors who ever watched me who are able to hear a gnat fart the word b*ll*cks from the far end of the ground and then ask me at half-time why I didn't tell him off.
To be fair, it's probably hard to make out what someone is shouting at you from 40 yards, especially in a stadium full with 60k spectators all gobbing off as well.

It's when the player gets right in their face and the still ignore it that gets me.
 
Talk Sport were on about this earlier and (the good) highlighted that the EPL need to act and get verbal abuse punished. They also questioned if the refs are independently funded.

Then they undid it all with (the bad) Trevor Sinclair suggesting Attwell was influenced by the crowd and Luiz should have only got a yellow. Presenters chimed in with “he was trying to defend” and collectively it was obvious again that players, ex-players and journslists should all be shot at dawn for not reading the LotG!!!
 
Seems to me there are two possible paths to actual change:
1. Refs are told to start giving out cards regularly for this, and behavior will ultimately change with the new expectations.
2. League's start dishing out real after the fact sanctions to players (or teams) who participate. Suspend a few players for a game, or dock a few teams a point in the standings, and the message will get heard.

But just continuing to say that behavior is unacceptable is totally meaningless. Landon Donovon was famously asked why players behaved like that towards refs, and he honestly said something along the lines of "because they let us." But we can't blame the refs on this--no ref can make this a personal crusade; it has to come from the top and be supported.

And that's my point. The looks I get when I caution for dissent are pretty funny, as are the comments along the lines of "He's the first one to actually card us for arguing." I realize I'm probably not looked upon that favorably because my tolerance level is lower than most for dissent. (Side note - I am a school administrator, so I do take the US high school edict of "the field is an extension of the classroom" pretty seriously because I understand what behavior really is acceptable in the classroom.)

We will continue to beat the dead horse of asking why professional referees continue to not sanction unsportsmanlike conduct and how that impacts us on Saturdays and Sundays dealing with amateurs and kids. It's just not going to change.
 
Talk Sport were on about this earlier and (the good) highlighted that the EPL need to act and get verbal abuse punished. They also questioned if the refs are independently funded.

Then they undid it all with (the bad) Trevor Sinclair suggesting Attwell was influenced by the crowd and Luiz should have only got a yellow. Presenters chimed in with “he was trying to defend” and collectively it was obvious again that players, ex-players and journslists should all be shot at dawn for not reading the LotG!!!
The funding is an important question.

PGMOL are funded by the EPL, EFL, and The FA.

While I'm not suggesting that there is undue pressure put on PGMOL to let stuff go, they aren't truly independent.

That being said, if you want professional referees then you need money, and The FA couldn't afford to fund PGMOL on their own so they need the leagues to contribute.
 
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