A&H

Order of offences and sanctions thereafter

JamesL

JamesL

RefChat Addict
Level 3 Referee
Okay, I believe I know the answer. Just checking for validation.

An attacker in an offside position commits the offside offence before he is fouled recklessly by his opponent.

Restart IDFK for defending team
Sanction = YC for defender.

Hard sell but correct outcome, yes?
 
The Referee Store
Yes, the offside comes first - but be sure that the offence has occurred (ie he has touched the ball, etc).
The YC is a hard sell, but necessary.
 
Thanks Lincs. Hard sell indeed. Particularly as the incident for reference was a second yellow.
 
Correct decision. Sympathise with you having to sell that but in law its correct.

Had a similar thing last season. I was AR. Player ran though, got the ball, flag was raised. Player ran into PA and taken down. All happened very quickly. Ref blew to give penalty. Luckily spotted me before signalling. Offside given. No cards as it was just careless in this instance. Took ref a few seconds to work out which offence come first though as I could see the coggs working in his head.
 
How many players would believe that's a free hit and scrubbed off because of the offside??? My guess would be most of them!!!
 
This happened in the Norwich v Boro game.

Referee gave a second yellow. BUT then cancelled the yellow as the player was offside.

My only thoughts are that the yellow was SPA which didnt exist as player offside.
 
JamesL said:
Thanks Lincs. Hard sell indeed. Particularly as the incident for reference was a second yellow.
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Just remember, never refer to it as a reckless foul (as play has ceased). It is a reckless challenge.
 
Yeeesh. What a nightmare scenario

I had exactly the SPA scenario @JamesL described a few weeks ago. It was on the left wing so I blew for the “SPA” foul and started running over - even reached into my pocket which I often do to signal what’s coming and reduce the noice from the offended team etc...as you would expect there were a ton of shouts “look at the Lino”...standing like a solid statue, flag up (Bless NARs). Relatively easy for me to raise my hands and say “oops sorry boys, offside”.

Have to say without this thread I would probably never caution someone for a reckless FOUL after an offside whistle...dare i ask if that’s what football expects?
 
I had a game last year which an attacker was challenged hard just outside the PA (but careless, not reckless). Before I had a chance to blow, he lashed out at his opponent and kick him in the knee (VC). The whilst came straight after and I got in there quickly with the red card in my hand before it escalated. I knew its not going to be an easy sell to give a free kick just outside the PA to the attacker which I had Just sent off. Got both captains in, explained the attacker was fouled fist and that's what the laws say I have to give the free kick for. the defending captain accepted it with no fuss. There was some moans from a couple of defenders when I pointed the direction of the free kick but the captain shut them up quickly.
 
WilliamD said:
Have to say without this thread I would probably never caution someone for a reckless FOUL after an offside whistle...dare i ask if that’s what football expects?
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That's what the law expects and that's all you need to know :)
 
In the OP example it would be an IDFK for offside and caution. Change it a bit though, and what I see a lot of referees get wrong, what happens if a player makes a pass to a player who is stood in an offside position and is then taken out by a reckless challenge after releasing the pass? The answer here is attacking DFK and caution, unless it was a very short distance pass and the offside player has already touched the ball by the time the foul occurs.

I've seen several referees tie themselves in knots here as they think the offside happened first, but it isn't as the offside only happens when the player becomes active.
 
RustyRef said:
In the OP example it would be an IDFK for offside and caution. Change it a bit though, and what I see a lot of referees get wrong, what happens if a player makes a pass to a player who is stood in an offside position and is then taken out by a reckless challenge after releasing the pass? The answer here is attacking DFK and caution, unless it was a very short distance pass and the offside player has already touched the ball by the time the foul occurs.

I've seen several referees tie themselves in knots here as they think the offside happened first, but it isn't as the offside only happens when the player becomes active.
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Do you think this happens because of advantage? I've had it a few times, player plays pass to piop but is fouled before active play. Due to wait and see, I'm signalling advantage and then a I get a flag. I always go back to the foul as technically an advantage never existed. But it does add a complexity to the decision making process and could explain why refs get tied up on it.
 
JamesL said:
Do you think this happens because of advantage? I've had it a few times, player plays pass to piop but is fouled before active play. Due to wait and see, I'm signalling advantage and then a I get a flag. I always go back to the foul as technically an advantage never existed. But it does add a complexity to the decision making process and could explain why refs get tied up on it.
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It could be advantage, but more likely the referee thinks offside, then sees the foul offence, and his mind computes that to what happened first even though the offside hadn't actually happened before the foul.
 
Had something slightly similar the other evening.

I was on the line, anticipating yellows breaking swiftly from defence, all evening their striker was sitting on or about the last line of defenders.

lol and behold, yellow centre back hoofs it long from the edge of the penalty area. Yellow no. 9 is offside, chases ball down, my flag goes up, ref blows.

Cue a little confusion (for me, the defenders, striker & 20 or so spectators behind me)

Unbeknownst to me (I was concentrating on the off side line, it was dark, the lights were rubbish etc, etc.) there was a late challenge on yellow centre back as/after he hoofed the ball up field, but ref was playing advantage. However, on my flag for offside, no advantage accrued, so ref took game back for free kick to yellow on edge of their area, rather than IDFK to reds for the offside.

We chatted about it in the changing room after the game - right outcome, just at the time was a little confusing for me until Imfigured out that there must have been a foul on yellow before the offside.
 
This is definitely one of those situations where if given a scenario written down, 99% would know the correct outcome. With a lot less thinking time, player pressures and any other distractions on the pitch it could be easy to get confused. Take time to think about it and delay your decision a second or so if needed. Do not rush and become victim to a mistake or confuse yourself. Speak to players too. Communication to captain often helps sell a tough yet correct decision. Always easy to get it right after the game but a lot harder to do in a split second with all eyes on you!
 
JamesL said:
This happened in the Norwich v Boro game.

Referee gave a second yellow. BUT then cancelled the yellow as the player was offside.

My only thoughts are that the yellow was SPA which didnt exist as player offside.
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I was at this game on the weekend. Whilst it was the correct call, it was incredibly confusing because not only was the player shown the red card but the linesman never actually flagged for offside, He just called the referee over to tell him
 
JamesL said:
Due to wait and see, I'm signalling advantage and then a I get a flag. I always go back to the foul as technically an advantage never existed.
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I used to do this quite a bit and it always made for interesting chats in the changing room afterwards. :)
 
Thinking time is crucial here, if it takes 2.3.5, 10 or even 30 seconds to get it right whats actually happened and make the right call then so be it.
 
Had one of these this weekend. Ball went out of play, but before I blew my whistle, Blue9 is hacked down on the edge between careless and reckless. Both teams seemed to be happy with the verbal ticking off and a throw in as the restart, although if the game were more balanced I'd probably have given the caution instead of the 8-0 it was now. I know that's wrong, but it is one of those instances you could go both ways.
 
Jorik0907 said:
Had one of these this weekend. Ball went out of play, but before I blew my whistle, Blue9 is hacked down on the edge between careless and reckless. Both teams seemed to be happy with the verbal ticking off and a throw in as the restart, although if the game were more balanced I'd probably have given the caution instead of the 8-0 it was now. I know that's wrong, but it is one of those instances you could go both ways.
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You will get shouted at on here for that.
 
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