A&H

Interfering in play

If the referee explicitly instructs not to flag in the absence of appeal, I assume we (as assistants) should adhere to such instruction even if we don't agree with it? Consistency and teamwork being more important than opinion on the matter?
 
The Referee Store
I'm not getting riled up or anything here. This is a logical fallacy that YOU keep falling into, it's relevant to point out that you've made the same mistake here with your argument that you've made elsewhere.

And none of this invalidates the point that I've made in a calm and polite manner, so please don't try and pretend that I'm picking a fight where I absolutely haven't.



Ok well you ignore my fallacies please because there are a small audience who are interested in them. Kindly consider anything you see of mine posted not relevant to you or your refereeing
That way, this forum can focus on help and advice instead of you jumping onto anything I post in an attempt to ridicule it.
 
If the referee explicitly instructs not to flag in the absence of appeal, I assume we (as assistants) should adhere to such instruction even if we don't agree with it? Consistency and teamwork being more important than opinion on the matter?


Not for me. I will flag that situation and make the ref make his call.
No offence will be taken by me whatever the decision and it wont affect my next decision
Far rather talk about it on the pitch than in the dressing room at ht
 
Ok well you ignore my fallacies please because there are a small audience who are interested in them. Kindly consider anything you see of mine posted not relevant to you or your refereeing
That way, this forum can focus on help and advice instead of you jumping onto anything I post in an attempt to ridicule it.
I'm literally replying to a post that you've made - how is it inappropriate to use the word "you" when doing so? But fine, if that word really offends you so much, pretend I wrote this:

Again, no one is saying that. The poster to who I am replying has taken a rational point, extended it too far and then cried about how insane that extended version is.

Is it strange if a player is offside and no defender or GK appeals for it? Of course it is. Should we as referees use all possible clues to help us reach the right decision? Of course we should.

Does that means entirely basing a decision (any decision) on the reaction of the players? Of course it doesn't. Be that DOGSO, a throw in, or anything in between.
 
Am painting a picture of what I consider the point to be then applying it to different situations with a view to maintaining the same mindset when considering a call

Maybe just me but am flagging/not flagging based on my view point, understanding of the law, regardless of a gk sitting on the floor saying nothing, or running towards me with a sword.
 
Not for me. I will flag that situation and make the ref make his call.
No offence will be taken by me whatever the decision and it wont affect my next decision
Far rather talk about it on the pitch than in the dressing room at ht
Obviously that's entirely your prerogative.

But for any up and coming referees out there who are starting to be given more AR responsibilities, worth remembering that you are there to assist the referee and flagrantly ignoring his or her specific pre match advice (whether on this issue or any other) is a sure fire way to get bad marks and an unhelpful reputation. Obviously feel free to clarify things pre match (and if you feel strongly about an issue to debate it at that point) but during the game, go against your instructions at your peril
 
Obviously that's entirely your prerogative.

But for any up and coming referees out there who are starting to be given more AR responsibilities, worth remembering that you are there to assist the referee and flagrantly ignoring his or her specific pre match advice (whether on this issue or any other) is a sure fire way to get bad marks and an unhelpful reputation. Obviously feel free to clarify things pre match (and if you feel strongly about an issue to debate it at that point) but during the game, go against your instructions at your peril


Accept your view point and forgive me in advance for paiting another senario
Ok you think its off but you dont flag as per instructions from ref...
Supervisor comes in at end, asks why you never flagged and you say, because the ref told you pre match not too!
Absurd, imo. You look after number one out there, i.e. You
Offer the advice and then by all means allow mr Ref his status

Might be diff where you are but the low mark, if its a concern, will come from getting the decision wrong, not from making the referee look good.

Repuation? I be very satisfied to be known as that lino who got the call right, rather than that lino who sheeps along

I guess it depends what your priorities are
 
Accept your view point and forgive me in advance for paiting another senario
Ok you think its off but you dont flag as per instructions from ref...
Supervisor comes in at end, asks why you never flagged and you say, because the ref told you pre match not too!
Absurd, imo. You look after number one out there, i.e. You
Offer the advice and then by all means allow mr Ref his status

Might be diff where you are but the low mark, if its a concern, will come from getting the decision wrong, not from making the referee look good.

Repuation? I be very satisfied to be known as that lino who got the call right, rather than that lino who sheeps along

I guess it depends what your priorities are
Yup, interesting different perspective. I veer more towards the 'Assist the referee to have a great game' camp than a 'look after number one' camp. But I think we can both agree that if you intend doing something (anything!) different to your pre match instructions, that you should be flagging this to the referee pre game rather than surprising him during it??
 
Yup, interesting different perspective. I veer more towards the 'Assist the referee to have a great game' camp than a 'look after number one' camp. But I think we can both agree that if you intend doing something (anything!) different to your pre match instructions, that you should be flagging this to the referee pre game rather than surprising him during it??


End of day if the marks are the priority, your promotion will be on your correctness of decision, not the fact you worked well as a team in a game in Nov even though you got the call(s) wrong
The referee prematch should include reference to alerting each other to the possibility that a big call might have been made wrongly. Any referee worth his salt will ask for input, as will any AR
Am being totally honest, the prematch chat I hear from refs includes "lets chat about it out there, just get the decision right on the park"
How you get there might indeed be messy.
 
Am painting a picture of what I consider the point to be then applying it to different situations with a view to maintaining the same mindset when considering a call

Maybe just me but am flagging/not flagging based on my view point, understanding of the law, regardless of a gk sitting on the floor saying nothing, or running towards me with a sword.
But there's no reason to do that, so your entire point is moot. Hence why I'm confused that this avenue of thought keeps cropping up. You can use the reactions of players as a guide when appropriate, and not use it when it's not appropriate and that's absolutely fine.

Has anyone working as an AR on this thread been told "no surprises" by a ref when you're discussing possible penalty calls? When I was first introduced to it, it came across as "cowardly", but I've since come to appreciate the logic behind it. If you think you've seen a penalty but no one is appealing, perhaps the smart thing isn't to give the penalty, but assume that you've mis-seen what's happening and allow play to continue.
 
as an AR i wouldnt be flagging here, i would be holding my position to indicate to the ref that i'm not 100% happy with the goal.

any ref (i would like to think) would recognise this and either come over to discuss it or know why i'm not sure and let me know he's OK with the goal regardless
 
This is pretty much a textbook example of interfering with an opponent. The assistant will have told the referee the player was in offside position over the comms, the referee should have all the information.

Always exceptions to every rule this is why it's dangerous to use lazy shorthands. I've heard many a referee say don't give a penalty unless there's appeal, sometimes they are so blatant there's no appeal.
 
But there's no reason to do that, so your entire point is moot. Hence why I'm confused that this avenue of thought keeps cropping up. You can use the reactions of players as a guide when appropriate, and not use it when it's not appropriate and that's absolutely fine.

Has anyone working as an AR on this thread been told "no surprises" by a ref when you're discussing possible penalty calls? When I was first introduced to it, it came across as "cowardly", but I've since come to appreciate the logic behind it. If you think you've seen a penalty but no one is appealing, perhaps the smart thing isn't to give the penalty, but assume that you've mis-seen what's happening and allow play to continue.


I will express my points in the way I see fit regardless of your input thanks
As you also are free to do


Your second point to the post I understand and can relate too.
I have heard me ask in the pre match as referee that you dont give me pens that I have to justify and explain for the next 20 years......which I think is along same lines as you are intending
And yes as AR if am thinking, oh, maybe, yet no appeals and ref dont even consider it worth glancing at me for then we move on.
 
I will express my points in the way I see fit regardless of your input thanks
As you also are free to do


Your second point to the post I understand and can relate too.
I have heard me ask in the pre match as referee that you dont give me pens that I have to justify and explain for the next 20 years......which I think is along same lines as you are intending
And yes as AR if am thinking, oh, maybe, yet no appeals and ref dont even consider it worth glancing at me for then we move on.
And that's exactly the principal we're talking about applying here. It might look offside, but if you're not sure and no-one appeals, surely it makes sense not to flag for the same reasons?
 
And that's exactly the principal we're talking about applying here. It might look offside, but if you're not sure and no-one appeals, surely it makes sense not to flag for the same reasons?


Am assumimg we have no comms in these senarios

Without them, and if a goal is scored, what harm are we doing by simply confirming or clarifying what we have seen?
A pk call as the game continues, for me, its gone, we move on
Goal scored, game is stopped, am fine with ultimate clarification on the park
This is not an every goal or even every game situation.
Once a season? So no harm in making sure we are all happy
 
1. 'Assist the referee to have a great game' camp
2. 'look after number one' camp
3. 'get the decision right' camp

I am in camp 3.
 
For me the best thing is to stand still after the goal is scored. The referee should then know that something is wrong and come to talk to you, you then share your piece of the jigsaw with his and hopefully come to the right decision. That said, I would be very wary of doing that if there wasn't a single protest about the goal, and especially not if the keeper just picks the ball out of the net without a whimper.
 
I think there are a couple of very good pieces of smart refereeing advice in this thread.

Back to the clip. I’m not sure the clip is so cut and dried. In real time the attacker is moving away and the shot curls the other side. As much as I dislike this next part, what I have seen taught is that it is only interfearing if exactly in the line of sight... and this might not quality.

As I say, my preference would be that anything remotely off putting for the gk would be deemed interfearing to discourage goalhangers but...
 
Gotta say... brilliant decoy letting the ball go. It sure looks like the keeper reacted immediately in the proper direction which would indicate against having his field of vision on the shot itself blocked. This one should be a fun debate as there is a possibility that his own teammates were obstructing his view after the ball was on its way. Here is an interesting one that may or may not apply (because we don't know what CR/AR saw or discussed, if two defenders block the GK view but have an attacker in OP behind them in the same line, is the attacker interfering? Cue the debate

Bottom line, the CR needs to be in a position to determine he interfered and the CR/AR need to communicate that he was in OP when he did so. This is not so unlike the deliberate play offside reset. The AR is in best position to see the OP but often has their vision of a deliberate play obscured by the line of players as they look across the field BUT the CR has the best view of the deliberate play. Communication is essential. I do stand by my earlier not giving much credence to protest/lack of. A routine offside is a LOTG that players have a great understanding of BUT how many times even at the highest levels have we seen players running with play raise their hands indicating that they believe it is offside when it in fact wasn't?

Always have to keep these things in perspective. The CR is much closer than our camera view and he had a different angle. In most cases CR angle is better but in this case neither view is straight along line of site so I'm not sure if either angle is good
 
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