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Worst ever abuse (for me)

Discussion in 'Your fixtures' started by WilliamD, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. WilliamD

    WilliamD Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    What a game today. Away team was by far the most abusive I have ever refereed. They got rolled over 8-4 and I awarded 5 penalties against them - not one doubt about any of them and frankly very little complaining per incident.

    The last 20 disintegrated as the losing team started piling on me - GK went off for S6 after the last pen, Lino/Sub went off for S6...neither even borderline offinabus - both were long loud rants involving all the words any reasonable person would consider offinabus.

    After the match I was changing shoes pitch side near the offending team and nearly every one of them was hurling insults and abusive language towards me and bantering with each other about me. I am a grown man and not lacking confidence or conviction...but it was the worst I have ever been treated in any situation. I shutter to think what things like this could do to a younger, less confident person/referee.

    Post match I had two incidents I felt compelled to submit a misconduct report for. Thoughts welcome.

    1) during the abuse while changing my shoes one person said "his Mrs doesn't give him enough love" to which one player replied "he doesn't have a Mrs he takes it up the ass". Whilst this was one of 10+ insults directed my way, and although I am a straight man, I think it is the kind of homophobic crap that should be kicked out of football. Misconduct submitted.

    2) In the car park one of the ring leaders of the post match abuse (but not one that I sent off) approached me and said "are you going to put those cards through". Simple "yes" was my response. He then told me to go sit on a dildo. Misconduct submitted.

    Strange thing is I was really quite average today at worst. I have had better and worse games but these guys really made a sport out of abuse. I generally have a high tolerance for blaming the ref when you're losing but this was way over the line.

    Pouring a beer.
     
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  4. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Sounds despicable.

    I hope you told them a report would be submitted. I think it can lead to issues if you haven't.

    Absolutely spot on with the reports. There's a case for a team misconduct too - failure to control players.

    After a game like this consider whether your proximity to the team was a good idea. I am not saying you invited it or justifying their behaviour ( totally unacceptable) but did u need to change footwear right there and then or could you perhaps have moved further away?

    Sounds like you handled what came your way well... still cant beleive in this day and age (or in any) people find someone's sexual orientation to be a comical subject.
     
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Also, ring your league secretary to make him aware of the reports going in. No doubt it will get back to him anyway so better he is briefed first hand if the subject does come up.
     
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  6. Justylove

    Justylove Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    Get the reports in and also if you feel you need to, speak to your RDO. Teams behaving in this way are one of the reasons so many grassroots referees give up.
     
  7. WilliamD

    WilliamD Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Ya in retrospect I should of just picked up and left instead of changing the shoes.

    Hmm now you have me thinking about failure to control the players charge. What is the burden on that being the case (as in what is a bunch of misconducts vs what is failure to control)? can the county come to that conclusion on their own with two S6s and two misconducts? Have I let the side down my not reporting it that way? good learning for me there...

    Good point on letting them know about the misconduct. On the first one I did not tell them as I felt, frankly, unsafe approaching them to tell them I was going to send a report for the homophobic insult. I mentioned in that misconduct that I didn't tell them and the reason why. On the second one I told him I was going to submit a misconduct report.
     
  8. Justylove

    Justylove Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    Just submit the reports with as much in the way of facts you can, if you can remember specific players based on team sheets or cautions then give names as well. Let your county FA sort it out.

    Chances are this team is known to them for discipline issues and they will handle it or ask you for clarification on any queries they have.

    You don't have to tell them you are putting a misconduct report in, especially if you feel it will further inflame the situation.
     
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  9. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    They may arrive at that conclusion... you certainly dont need to write it in as many words as failure to control. All you need to do is report team on wholegame via extraordinary report and report the circumstances as what happened. I would still be looking to report individuals particularly when you know who they are but as there are multiple offenders seems like a team jobby to me as well.

    I think you have it more or less covered in your reports, I cant see how anyone would come to any other conclusion but I am sure that there is a team option in wholegame which should be used for similar type scenarios, but, I would say alongside the individual reports too if there are specific acts of misconduct that need reporting, so the individuals also get the punishment thats required.

    Its always important that someone knows a report is coming because then if they give a false name or refusal to give name the club will be asked bybthe county who exactly it was... so you can say to a sec or manager or someone in a position of responsibility that a) can you have their name and b) failure to do so will result in further misconduct reports; there will almost always be someone sensible about.
    The problem is if you havent told anyone how will they know who the guilty party is which then makes it incredibly difficult for the discipline department.

    But as justy says if you dont feel safe then its not essential.
     
  10. alexgr

    alexgr Active Member Level 7 Referee

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    Yeah please do report - as a young, gay referee I know several people of a similar demographic who have unfortunately been put off refereeing because of similar incidents. Only way we stamp it out is if we all do our bit
     
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  11. Trip

    Trip Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    According to the FA this should be a double ban.

    When I brought up the subject of homophobic abuse with an RDO about a year ago he also told me to report it to Kick It Out, you might want to consider that.
     
  12. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    The FA don’t understand the term abuse if they had it spelled out to them in front on an FA committee. From personal experience in something wholly different to this they couldn’t run a bath never mind run a competent disciplinary hearing. They even refuse to give legally requested personal information when even there own boss in London tell them to do so! You're wasting your time mate but good on you for not putting up with it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
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  13. lincs22

    lincs22 Supply League Observer Staff Member Observer/Tutor

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    @WilliamD - if you haven't done so, ring your RDO tomorrow. I recall that there is a separate reporting procedure for racist/sexist abuse. I believe that the players concerned will be suspended immediately from all football (not following the seven day rule for that league only) and investigation will proceed on an enhanced timescale.

    The case may even be held this week.
     
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  14. deusex

    deusex Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Have to disagree here, having been in similar situations.
    He's on his own, no ARs. Running round demanding the names of the players is going to invite further misconduct.
    Complete myth that you HAVE to inform someone a misconduct report is incoming.
    If he hasn't even a shirt number to go on County will happily demand the name of the player. Club replying "we don't know who it was" simply won't wash and the club will be fined.
    I'd say with the current political hot potato of Football and Homophobia these 2 lads are in for a nice long break (f**king vermin)
     
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  15. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    How the #%#$ does a team with an attitude like that manages to stay in a comp or get to a stage where they don't even think of the consequences of their actions and behave that way? for me its simple, they have got away with it before. And this happens far too often in grassroots.

    My worse abuse came several yeas ago by a single person, not as bad as OP but it was by a player-manager in front of over 100 ppl yelling abuse from 50 meters away, being held back, for a sustained period of about 2 minutes until he ran out of puff. All after he was dismissed from the TA for OFFINABUS. I was surprised to see him playing two weeks later. The following year I found out the FA had sent my reports to his club to deal with him. He was called to a club meeting where he was told to improve his behavior and given a one week ban. Admittedly that process is now changed but there are still huge holes in it.

    Unless grassroots FAs get serious about consequences of ALL (not just selective) referee abuse and show it by action, players will continue the abuse referees.
     
  16. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    They work on a percentage 'Burden of Probability of Conviction' and with targeted conviction rates from London, anything that is going to allow that precious percentage rate to drop just isn't pursued! Basically, if it could possibly lose in a court then they don't even pursue it, it sinks into the long grass! (I know this from personal experience with a TOP TOP person and situation, this was explained to me as to the reason why my case was shelved, this wasn't name calling either, IMO it was far worse!). That person got a serious piece of my mind but I see how they also got into the Mark Sampson mess too. They are hamstrung by dated procedures and old school thinking.
     
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  17. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Well in my case it also had a lot to do with with a poorly organised FA with two overworked paid employees and a number of volunteers coming from clubs with conflicting interests (with more interest in their own club's agenda than the FA as a whole).
     
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  18. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    Overworked!! Do me a favour, its an old boys self interest network club, They're on a gravy train and no one wants to get off!! Choo choo!!
     
  19. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    When I say balance of probability uncertainty!!.... I've got one away team sat next to me supporting every word of my words and actions of the day and a home team denying everything saying it was 'person or persons unknown' who did something within my property so disgusting that I was physically sick (from within the home dressing room). And the FA come back with there is a grey area of law to say you are not protected as you leave the pitch and enter a council property (home team changing room) as they have no jurisdiction! Even though I was physically and verbally threatened entering and leaving that home dressing room and they come back with there isn't enough evidence that it was them!!! Any abuse is bad, really bad, but don't hold your breath that they actually care about you because they don't! Its all about them procedures and protecting those numbers!! Don't rock the gravy boat!!!
     
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  20. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    I have acknowledged this already as not being essential.

    I think if it were me I'd maybe consider calling the club secretary after the game or the next day, especially if he wasnt involved.

    If he doesnt know who how or why then yes the club will get fined but the perpotrators will be free to play next week. And to be quite honest thats unfair on the club..

    There are lots of clubs who will take their own actions as well alongside that of the disciplinary departments. As I say there is usually at least 1 sensible person at a club. If you dont feel safe then I am not suggesting taking any action there and then but there are other things you can do to help identify the offenders
     
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  21. HarryD

    HarryD Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    @Sheffields Finest At the end of last season I had a fixture running the line on a sunday cup final. A player got binned for giving a t***er gesture (apologies if I'm bypassing the profanity filter - just to give an idea of what was said... definitely haven't had a warning for that before:hmmm:) to the opposition after scoring to make it 4-2.

    I have the unenviable job, as I'm benchside, to tell him he must leave the vicinity. He proceeds to say to me 'eff off lino you effing little f**got'.

    Here comes the point of what I just said:
    In fairness to the FA, he got 6 games for the misconduct offence as well as the 2 for the S6.. However I've seen him play during his suspension, making the whole experience pointless:wall:
     
  22. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    100% agree, unless they make it like kids footie where they have to show photos then there will always be players willing to bend the rules and play under an alias. In my old Saturday league they were pretty good and to my knowledge it didn’t happen. It definitely did on sundays though.
    I reported one lad that gave me two different names when booking him and sending him off! He was the player manager too. He claimed his dad had cancer and that’s why his head was all over the place!!! WTF he was already banned and couldn’t remember which false name he gave me first....
     

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