Weird technical one with equipment

[santa sangria]

Regional high level youth game. Great ARs that I am friends from doing many games with. AR1 more qualified with the whistle than me. In the prematch, in addition to other stuff, I covered that we would be doing an equipment check but nothing more specific.

So, players line up, equipment check proceeds, players take the field, coin toss etc. I count the players, match starts, first phase of play results in GK after 25 seconds. AR1 signals substitution. I signal OK, thinking maybe a key player arrived late. But when AR1 gets to the bench it's not a sub. The player wants to come on to the field. I am confused, AR1 is confused. I briefly talk to AR1 and beckon the player on. Mind is racing. Did the player go to the bathroom, did I miscount at the kick off...

At half time AR1 tells me that the player was on for the kick off.
At full time we find out what actually happened from the coach: the player did not have shin guards on at kick off, realised, left the field, put them on and then requested to come back.

So, it's a technical matter but some kind of cluster**** here. Law says I should have given the player YC for LFoPWP. That would have been very harsh, with AR2 having missing the missing equipment, and me "approving" the equipment ceremony, which in the end must be my overall responsibility.

I should have checked in the pre-match that both ARs knew what to check (turned out they were both just looking at studs! D'oh). And when the sub signal was changed I should have taken more time to learn on the spot from the coach exactly what had gone on... still I think I might not have given the YC because I feel it was my responsibility that the player was allowed through the check...

Any thoughts?

PS Big goalie blood injury after 5 mins so 10 mins of 1H additional time was a much bigger story in this game. Overall the game went very well.

 

[Padfoot]

Yellow card is mandatory.....no option to use discretion.

Rethink your pre-match instructions and be specific about what you want checked. Personally, i think its shocking that an AR doesn't know what they are supposed to check, but to protect yourself in future, you will need to assume that all future AR's are as stupid as that one.

Just be thankful you weren't being observed on that.......the failure to caution the player would have cost you in AoL and the break down in the teamwork would have potentially cost you in Teamwork.

 

[santa sangria]

Yellow card is mandatory.....no option to use discretion.

Rethink your pre-match instructions and be specific about what you want checked. Personally, i think its shocking that an AR doesn't know what they are supposed to check, but to protect yourself in future, you will need to assume that all future AR's are as stupid as that one.

Just be thankful you weren't being observed on that.......the failure to caution the player would have cost you in AoL and the break down in the teamwork would have potentially cost you in Teamwork.

OK mandatory. OK. I agree.
Except the point about my young colleague, the AR in question is in his second season, has perhaps only done 2-3 matches with equipment checks (our leagues have a cut off point), he has a brilliant attitude and the rest of his game (and the other have done with him this season) was marvellous.

 

[jofusref]

take it as a learning curve to reinforce in your prematch next time,and as it was the officials fault no caution this time

 

[Padfoot]

take it as a learning curve to reinforce in your prematch next time,and as it was the officials fault no caution this time

You don't get that option. Player left the FOP without permission......mandatory caution. If you feel that bad about it, give them a tenner once you've been paid.

 

[Padfoot]

OK mandatory. OK. I agree.
Except the point about my young colleague, the AR in question is in his second season, has perhaps only done 2-3 matches with equipment checks (our leagues have a cut off point), he has a brilliant attitude and the rest of his game (and the other have done with him this season) was marvellous.

2nd season and doesn't know that shin guards are mandatory equipment? Sorry, that's unforgivable.

Very very basic thing, players mandatory equipment.

 

[RustyRef]

2nd season and doesn't know that shin guards are mandatory equipment? Sorry, that's unforgivable.

Very very basic thing, players mandatory equipment.

Stop being so judgemental, there won't be many officials out there who haven't missed something in the equipment check at some point or another. I certainly have, my assistants have on games, and I've seen the checks not done properly on a Football League game.

 

[one]

Regional high level youth game. Great ARs that I am friends from doing many games with. AR1 more qualified with the whistle than me. In the prematch, in addition to other stuff, I covered that we would be doing an equipment check but nothing more specific.

So, players line up, equipment check proceeds, players take the field, coin toss etc. I count the players, match starts, first phase of play results in GK after 25 seconds. AR1 signals substitution. I signal OK, thinking maybe a key player arrived late. But when AR1 gets to the bench it's not a sub. The player wants to come on to the field. I am confused, AR1 is confused. I briefly talk to AR1 and beckon the player on. Mind is racing. Did the player go to the bathroom, did I miscount at the kick off...

At half time AR1 tells me that the player was on for the kick off.
At full time we find out what actually happened from the coach: the player did not have shin guards on at kick off, realised, left the field, put them on and then requested to come back.

So, it's a technical matter but some kind of cluster**** here. Law says I should have given the player YC for LFoPWP. That would have been very harsh, with AR2 having missing the missing equipment, and me "approving" the equipment ceremony, which in the end must be my overall responsibility.

I should have checked in the pre-match that both ARs knew what to check (turned out they were both just looking at studs! D'oh). And when the sub signal was changed I should have taken more time to learn on the spot from the coach exactly what had gone on... still I think I might not have given the YC because I feel it was my responsibility that the player was allowed through the check...

Any thoughts?

PS Big goalie blood injury after 5 mins so 10 mins of 1H additional time was a much bigger story in this game. Overall the game went very well.

Unless your AR is in his first few games then just asking them to check equipment should be sufficient. You are not really there to teach them the basics and the standard stuff otherwise you would have a very long session of instructions by the end of which they would have forgotten half of it. The AR stuffed up, let the team down and he will learn from it.
It is not your or the ARs fault that the player was not wearing the right equipment. It is their responsibility. Equipment check is to make it easier for yourself and avoid any future issues.

If he knew he should ask for permission before coming on then he would/should have known to ask for permission to get off. Either way here is my thoughts on how you should have handled this.

Find when and how he went off before you let him on
Issue a caution (the player will learned his lesson the harsh way)
After the game make sure the AR has learned his lesson.

 

[Padfoot]

Stop being so judgemental, there won't be many officials out there who haven't missed something in the equipment check at some point or another. I certainly have, my assistants have on games, and I've seen the checks not done properly on a Football League game.

Never known anyone to miss shin guards........sock tape, yes......wristbands, yes......jewellery, yes.......but not shin guards!

Unless your AR is in his first few games then just asking them to check equipment should be sufficient. You are not really there to teach them the basics and the standard stuff otherwise you would have a very long session of instructions by the end of which they would have forgotten half of it. The AR stuffed up, let the team down and he will learn from it.
It is not your or the ARs fault that the player was not wearing the right equipment. It is their responsibility. Equipment check is to make it easier for yourself and avoid any future issues.

If he knew he should ask for permission before coming on then he would/should have known to ask for permission to get off. Either way here is my thoughts on how you should have handled this.

Find when and how he went off before you let him on
Issue a caution (the player will learned his lesson the harsh way)
After the game make sure the AR has learned his lesson.

If you were being observed and allowed a player to play without shin guards, you will lose marks. Even if it was the AR who checked them......buck stops with the referee. Referee's responsibility to ensure that players are wearing the correct equipment before play starts.

 

[RustyRef]

If you were being observed and allowed a player to play without shin guards, you will lose marks. Even if it was the AR who checked them......buck stops with the referee. Referee's responsibility to ensure that players are wearing the correct equipment before play starts.

That isn't right, certainly not in senior levels in the UK. I missed wrong coloured undershorts on a Conference National game that I was assistant on and I got marked down for it, the referee didn't. Likewise on a Ryman League game that I was refereeing my assistant had missed an undershirt problem, he lost marks I didn't (although I did have it corrected after around 15 mins when I spotted there was a problem).

Never known anyone to miss shin guards........sock tape, yes......wristbands, yes......jewellery, yes.......but not shin guards!

The size of shin pads these days makes it very easy to miss as they aren't easy to see. Especially with lot of players wearing pads like these, that are soft and very lightweight, and only turn hard on impact. Short of touching their leg or kicking them in the shin to see if they shout ouch it is very difficult to see if pads are on or not. https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Form-Pro-S-Elite-Soccer-Guards/dp/B00LMDYCHQ

 

[Padfoot]

That isn't right, certainly not in senior levels in the UK. I missed wrong coloured undershorts on a Conference National game that I was assistant on and I got marked down for it, the referee didn't. Likewise on a Ryman League game that I was refereeing my assistant had missed an undershirt problem, he lost marks I didn't (although I did have it corrected after around 15 mins when I spotted there was a problem).

But it is correct for the vast majority of referees in the UK who will be observed up to level 4, who will suffer the consequences of their AR's not checking equipment properly.


The size of shin pads these days makes it very easy to miss as they aren't easy to see. Especially with lot of players wearing pads like these, that are soft and very lightweight, and only turn hard on impact. Short of touching their leg or kicking them in the shin to see if they shout ouch it is very difficult to see if pads are on or not. https://www.amazon.co.uk/G-Form-Pro-S-Elite-Soccer-Guards/dp/B00LMDYCHQ

At £63 a pair, I don't the vast majority of referees will have to worry about these on a Sunday morning!

 

[santa sangria]

(...probably wasn't clear but we only ceremonial equipment checks for the top regional youth leagues and highest four adult divisions - in the whole country. From the fifth tier down it's the players' responsibility - until noticed by an official. And just to throw on the fire, in our 7th and 8th tiers as well as hobby leagues you can wear "equipment that is dangerous to yourself". Point being, we have to climb a few rungs before we start to do equipment checks as ARs).

 

[TopCat]

(...probably wasn't clear but we only ceremonial equipment checks for the top regional youth leagues and highest four adult divisions - in the whole country. From the fifth tier down it's the players' responsibility - until noticed by an official. And just to throw on the fire, in our 7th and 8th tiers as well as hobby leagues you can wear "equipment that is dangerous to yourself". Point being, we have to climb a few rungs before we start to do equipment checks as ARs).

Is that pretty much just chains/necklaces?

 

[santa sangria]

Is that pretty much just chains/necklaces?

Glasses?

 

[one]

If you were being observed and allowed a player to play without shin guards, you will lose marks. Even if it was the AR who checked them......buck stops with the referee. Referee's responsibility to ensure that players are wearing the correct equipment before play starts.

If the observer wants to do that so be it. So what happens if in my instructions I do tell my ARs every single item of equipment to check and they still miss a shin pad? Do i still get mark down? Surly you are not suggesting to do everything myself just to be sure.

I don't mark down the referee for basic AR duty errors made by the ARs. I would however mark him/her down if s/he hadn't instructed the ARs to check for equipment as a general instruction. The AR should know the level of details.

 

[santa sangria]

Glasses?

Sorry to self flagellate, but serious question, do you class normal spectacles as "equipment that is dangerous to yourself"?

 

[Padfoot]

If the observer wants to do that so be it. So what happens if in my instructions I do tell my ARs every single item of equipment to check and they still miss a shin pad? Do i still get mark down? Surly you are not suggesting to do everything myself just to be sure.

I don't mark down the referee for basic AR duty errors made by the ARs. I would however mark him/her down if s/he hadn't instructed the ARs to check for equipment as a general instruction. The AR should know the level of details.

You will soon learn that a good, or bad, AR can have a corresponding positive or negative effect your marks whilst being observed. As the Referee the buck stops with you....the clue is in their title...."Assistant..."

 

[Ciley Myrus]

You will soon learn that a good, or bad, AR can have a corresponding positive or negative effect your marks whilst being observed. As the Referee the buck stops with you....the clue is in their title...."Assistant..."

I made this point months ago and was imo ridiculed.

 

[A Freethinker]

Sorry but you don't carry out equipment checks until you reach a certain level? WTF it is done from the first game at the youngest level here right the way up? What other LOTG do you ignore, by that I mean if you don't inspect equipment they pretty much wear what they want and you allow it?

 

[RustyRef]

You will soon learn that a good, or bad, AR can have a corresponding positive or negative effect your marks whilst being observed. As the Referee the buck stops with you....the clue is in their title...."Assistant..."

Yes, but a bad AR can make a total mess of offside decisions and I certainly hope you wouldn't mark the referee down for that. Unless of course it was an incorrect interpretation rather than being unable to spot an offside offence.

Referee is still the team leader here, but the buck for getting offside wrong lies with the assistant.