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Junior/Youth U14 Red card

Tom_R

Tom_R

Member
Level 5 Referee
I showed a red card for violent conduct on Sunday (my second of the season). There was nothing short of an uproar from the team but particularly the coach. I don't know if this was because of a poor decision of whether they just aren't used to seeing red cards at their age group. I also had the coach at the end of the game tell me I ruined the game. The red card had a big impact as it was the right back and the other team scored 3 goals in 5 mins afterwards. The decision was instinctive; I heard the player hit the other player after the challenge but didn't entirely see it. I'm not sure if I'm doubting the decision because of what the coach said after or because I think I got it wrong.
Any help or guidance would be great :)
 
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As far as giving a send off in 14U, if they earn it, they get it.

I really can't tell from what you wrote if he did. I'm not sure what "I heard the player hit the other player" really means, especially when you say you didn't see it. Only guidance I can give from what is written is that if you are going to send off a player for hitting someone, you need to be really sure that is what happened.
 
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Player gets sent off, its obviously the payers fault, but its always the ref that ruined the game or lost control.

In this case, all new referees have to remember the golden rule, if you don't see it, you can't act on it.

Numerous examples down the years on here, but you simply can't guess or assume anything.
 
You should not give a red card for something you did not see. And you are kinda avoiding explaining if the complaints were about the incident or not.

You heard someone hit someone? Really? I don’t buy it so far. What did you see, what are you asking?

Sorry to be harsh.
 
Just to point out OP is a level 8 referee which means U16 in English Money.

OP can you give some more information so that we can support you better?

What did you see? This is really the important part for a physical offence. When you say hit, what do you mean by this? Late challenge? Striking?

On reflection, could you have done anything differently? For example to have a better view of the incident!
 
What was player reaction? Anyone striking someone, 9/10 will result in a mass confrontation, pushing & shocking as a minimum.

No issues, with ‘sorry guys, I can only give what I see, my angle I didn’t see it”

I would only be going on sound if I then saw a black eye or claret!
 
First minute or last minute, whenever you decide to issue a card managers (and parents) will always question it and say you ruined the game especially at youth level, when you become more experienced, you learn to filter it out as it's irrelevant.

You heard something, chances are your instinct was right, however echo what others have said unless you have appointed NARs, you can't give something you haven't seen or heard clearly yourself.

Have you submitted your report yet? Make sure you're %100 clear in your mind and of what you submit, include details of where it was on the pitch, how far from the incident you were, did you have a clear and unobstructed view etc? Chances are the team will appeal, don't take it personally even if they try it on with character assassination.

Do you have a mentor you can discuss it with?
 
Mooseybaby said:
First minute or last minute, whenever you decide to issue a card managers (and parents) will always question it and say you ruined the game especially at youth level, when you become more experienced, you learn to filter it out as it's irrelevant.

You heard something, chances are your instinct was right, however echo what others have said unless you have appointed NARs, you can't give something you haven't seen or heard clearly yourself.

Have you submitted your report yet? Make sure you're %100 clear in your mind and of what you submit, include details of where it was on the pitch, how far from the incident you were, did you have a clear and unobstructed view etc? Chances are the team will appeal, don't take it personally even if they try it on with character assassination.

Do you have a mentor you can discuss it with?
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Reporting has changed now. This wouldn't require a write up just the relevant reason for sending off e.g. SFP or VC
 
Tom_R said:
I showed a red card for violent conduct on Sunday (my second of the season). There was nothing short of an uproar from the team but particularly the coach. I don't know if this was because of a poor decision of whether they just aren't used to seeing red cards at their age group. I also had the coach at the end of the game tell me I ruined the game. The red card had a big impact as it was the right back and the other team scored 3 goals in 5 mins afterwards. The decision was instinctive; I heard the player hit the other player after the challenge but didn't entirely see it. I'm not sure if I'm doubting the decision because of what the coach said after or because I think I got it wrong.
Any help or guidance would be great :)
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A lot of good advice posted already. I would provide a different angle which may be somewhat different and support your red card.

A red card is the capital punishment of the football world. It can't be given unless you are certain the offence that deserves it was committed by the offender. That's where the "if you don't see it you can't punish it" comes from. I don't entirely subscribe to it as on the rare occasions you can be certain of something without seeing it. To give you an example a few years ago I heard offensive language shouted at me from about 3m behind me. I didn't actually see the player while he was saying it but when I immediately turned around there was only one player there with no one else within 15m. I had absolutely no doubt who said it (and why). He duly got the red card and walked off. My report was factual as to I did not see him say it and the rest. He did get suspended for it by the local FA.

As already said, we need more information to be able to tell you in a definitive way if we think what you did was right. But my guess is reading through these posts you probably already know.

Another advice I can give you is that some coach/manager/players have a way of making you doubt yourself on decisions that are 100% correct. Keep that in mind when you reflect on your performance for a game.
 
JamesL said:
Reporting has changed now. This wouldn't require a write up just the relevant reason for sending off e.g. SFP or VC
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This is an interesting point. Slightly off topic, but often the posts on here about when players/clubs appeal say to stick to what is on your report, but whole game doesn't require a report (although you can optionally add details).

Should we be giving full details in whole game with the red card or do we write the report when told that there is an appeal?
 
davlon said:
This is an interesting point. Slightly off topic, but often the posts on here about when players/clubs appeal say to stick to what is on your report, but whole game doesn't require a report (although you can optionally add details).

Should we be giving full details in whole game with the red card or do we write the report when told that there is an appeal?
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If it is just a straight forward red card then you just report the card and reason for the offence, no need for any report/notes.

If it is an extraordinary report, or the red card is aggravated in anyway (e.g. offinabus that is also discriminatory such as racist or homophobic comments) then these have to be written and its often these ones that end up at hearings/appeals

Pretty certain you can't appeal now without video evidence unless it's mistaken identity in which case the offending player has to be offered up.
 
JamesL said:
If it is just a straight forward red card then you just report the card and reason for the offence, no need for any report/notes.

If it is an extraordinary report, or the red card is aggravated in anyway (e.g. offinabus that is also discriminatory such as racist or homophobic comments) then these have to be written and its often these ones that end up at hearings/appeals

Pretty certain you can't appeal now without video evidence unless it's mistaken identity in which case the offending player has to be offered up.
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You can because I had one in 2020 only didn’t get to a hearing as he accidentally admitted he had done it in his own appeal.
 
JamesL said:
Just to point out OP is a level 8 referee which means U16 in English Money.

OP can you give some more information so that we can support you better?

What did you see? This is really the important part for a physical offence. When you say hit, what do you mean by this? Late challenge? Striking?

On reflection, could you have done anything differently? For example to have a better view of the incident!
Click to expand...
I gave a foul for holding - team A DFK(I was in a good position for this and no complaints from anyone) the team A player then turned around and I saw his arm move. I then heard him hit the team B player - this is quite hard to explain but I'm sure I heard contact so I logged the violent conduct as striking. I'm sure and unsure about this at the same time. On one hand I'm sure I saw him hit the other player if he didn't there's no explanation for the sound I heard. A few people have been confused by the sound I mentioned. It's the sound you hear if you tap someone on the back (obviously harder) like a thud sound. On the other hand the team B player was between me and the team A player so I couldn't fully see.
My decision was instinctive and I made it quite quickly I already had the card out before I had chance to change my mind - I trust myself with these decisions because I used to over-think clear decisions and then not show the card with negatively impacted my match control.
 
Tom_R said:
I gave a foul for holding - team A DFK(I was in a good position for this and no complaints from anyone) the team A player then turned around and I saw his arm move. I then heard him hit the team B player - this is quite hard to explain but I'm sure I heard contact so I logged the violent conduct as striking. I'm sure and unsure about this at the same time. On one hand I'm sure I saw him hit the other player if he didn't there's no explanation for the sound I heard. A few people have been confused by the sound I mentioned. It's the sound you hear if you tap someone on the back (obviously harder) like a thud sound. On the other hand the team B player was between me and the team A player so I couldn't fully see.
My decision was instinctive and I made it quite quickly I already had the card out before I had chance to change my mind - I trust myself with these decisions because I used to over-think clear decisions and then not show the card with negatively impacted my match control.
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Did the Team B fall, or react? Did anyone else react, e.g. Team B players?
 
No reaction from team b that I remember, it’s all a bit of a blur but a huge reaction from the team a
 
@Tom_R I think we can settle this once and for all now you’ve provided that detail.

For starters, don’t worry about it now. It’s done, and at the time you were convinced you were correct. I can accept that, and won’t challenge that point.

For future reference though - be 100% sure. If you don’t see the exact contact/full incident be more cautious. Don’t guess or try and fill in the blanks. One of the worst things that can happen is being the only person to see something, if you understand my meaning? The reaction you described suggests nobody else saw what you did.

At some stage we have all done this or similar - for me it was a nailed on handball on the goal line, using his arm to deliberately block the ball. Red card and penalty. Defending team argued against it claiming it was his chest, attacking team accepted the penalty.

I was observed that day and it cost me my promotion. It did hit his chest according to the report from a neutral party. I was wrong in law despite being convinced otherwise.

Chalk it to experience and go again.
 
Tealeaf said:
@Tom_R I think we can settle this once and for all now you’ve provided that detail.

For starters, don’t worry about it now. It’s done, and at the time you were convinced you were correct. I can accept that, and won’t challenge that point.

For future reference though - be 100% sure. If you don’t see the exact contact/full incident be more cautious. Don’t guess or try and fill in the blanks. One of the worst things that can happen is being the only person to see something, if you understand my meaning? The reaction you described suggests nobody else saw what you did.

At some stage we have all done this or similar - for me it was a nailed on handball on the goal line using his arm to deliberately block the ball. Red card and penalty. Defending team argued against it claiming it was his chest, attacking team accepted the penalty.

I was observed that day and it cost me my promotion. It did hit his chest according to the report from a neutral party. I was wrong in law despite being convinced otherwise.

Chalk it to experience and go again.
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Thanks, that helps a lot
 
No issues whatsoever issuing red cards at that age.

Last year, I ended a U14 game 10 v 10. Double dissent yellow for one player (that ended up with an additional report for OFFINABUS after the 13 year old kid called me a "f***ing joke" following the 2CT) and a 2CT for USB that was a borderline VC when a kid on the other team had a really, really reckless shoulder barge into the player on the team playing down.

At that age, the players need to start learning the consequences of those actions. Now I'd probably be a little more sure about whether I want to go down that road at U14, but once I'm sure I'm not going to avoid the card "because he's 13".
 
RefIADad said:
No issues whatsoever issuing red cards at that age.

Last year, I ended a U14 game 10 v 10. Double dissent yellow for one player (that ended up with an additional report for OFFINABUS after the 13 year old kid called me a "f***ing joke" following the 2CT) and a 2CT for USB that was a borderline VC when a kid on the other team had a really, really reckless shoulder barge into the player on the team playing down.

At that age, the players need to start learning the consequences of those actions. Now I'd probably be a little more sure about whether I want to go down that road at U14, but once I'm sure I'm not going to avoid the card "because he's 13".
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Said this before but I had a manager say "are you really doing cards?" at an U15 girls game. Replied "They're big enough to play 11s (a side) they're big enough for cards)
 
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