A&H

Junior/Youth Player walking away when trying to caution him

Ciley Myrus said:
Sorry nothing personal but I cant picture the example you are trying to explain. What I can make out though, all harks back to something I have typed before, (and clearly its not gospel but the theory rings true), that, you rarely get dissent when you make a correct call.
So, problem solved, make the right call and you wont be cautioning this player for dissent !
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One mans right call is another mans wrong call!

Being in a credible position is often more important than getting the call right, especially with tight out of play calls. You blow the whistle and players turn to see you 10-15 yds away immediately you convey more confidence because of your proximity.

Your point should have been that you rarely get dissent from the team who the call favours.

Dissent is often about getting inside your head as a referee and chipping away at your confidence, and players will do that regardless of right/wrong decisions. Some more than others!
 
The Referee Store
No, my point is, make the right call and it limits dissent, yes of course players will try mind games, famously Man Utds late 90s team would take turn about questioning every call, even when they knew it was the right call, but of course, it was not that call they were looking for, they were trying to influence the next one..

I suppose there was a well worn trusty old saying " I might have got the decision wrong, but at least I was in the right place to call it"

make of that what you will....
 
Rubbish I'm afraid Ciley - players will dispute correct decisions for mind game reasons, but also because their angle genuinely leads them to believe that a correct decision is wrong. And they'll dispute them harder if they're losing and less so if they're winning comfortably.

All of these factors (and more) are entirely out of your hands as a referee - you could be having the game of your life and if a team is losing narrowly and is in a position where it looks like you've f****d up, you're going to hear about it even if you haven't made a wrong decision all match.
 
I would never regard anyone else's opinion on here as "rubbish", I might not agree with it, I might think its a bit far out but bit apt given the thread is kind of about respect, to see one referee slate another referees ideology as "rubbish".
Maybe respect starts from within !
 
I think making the correct call is important, but, the right call isn't always the call the players want. Although if you're accurate and consistent throughout the match then that helps.

Also added in that some players are just idiots who would argue if you told the that the sky is blue and the grass is green.

I posted about it in another thread but on Sunday I stopped play for an injury, I hadn't seen the alleged offence so the correct restart was a dropped ball.

One player just couldn't accept this and talked herself into a stupid caution.

Or the time I gave a foul and called the offender over to have a quick chat and he talked himself into a red for OFFINABUS, towards a member of his own team, again no complaints.

I've flagged for a player who was about 2 yards offside and still got shouted at that he wasn't.

Some of it is mind games, and while I think that becomes more prevalent as you work you way up the ladder and the players are more experienced and skilful, there is no doubt in my mind that some coaches at all levels (include youth) teach or tell players to do it in the hope of getting in the refs head.
 
I'm afraid it's got into my argue about dissent and I agree with other statesments as said above.

But here's a prime example from couple weeks ago being observed given a penalty blows for penalty to be taken, taken scored but on the sideline is the car/sub who has been moaning about decision all game now I'm looking for encroachment at the 18 yard line there's none but this car/player is having a go so goes over takes his name gives him a yellow now if a complaining player where all game moans I happy give that player a £10 £30 fine just each week there is always a point for last weeks ref
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Well that's just utter nonsense....
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Its a theory I like and I theory which I can relate too, its done me no harm but with most things with are opinion on here, if it does nothing for you, that's fine.

Only in my experience, both as observer and referee, I have found a definite link between games where I got things right and a low crime count for dissent, as opposed to games where, either through self reflection or official observation, my decision making was either erratic or blatantly wrong, it has lead to a higher crime count for dissent. Many a game I have watched where referee is making what I deem to be wrong calls and is met with continual dissent, whereas I have found a referee making what I deem to be correct calls, gets less dissent. I guess it would take a good decade of observing to be able to see this trend, when or if you have that, come back and see if my theory rings true.
 
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Its not gospel ! Its only a theory...and with any theory, you either buy into it, or you don't...either way, that's your choice as an individual !!
 
Ciley has a good point. Ive certainly noticed that if I have a bit of an off day then dissent is higher, but if I go in like a boss then it can almost non existent with exception of the normal grumbles etc.

But, some players, and even while teams, would be on your back even if you get every single decision right, but a yellow or two normally quietens them down.
 
I think you have phrased it better than me.
Think about when you were driving home from the game knowing you had a belter and your waiting the call or email to say you got a 8.5
Then think about how much ( or little) dissent you got...

then think about the game where you drive home knowing you had a sore tummy or hardly slept the night before or just generally were not as tuned in as normal, you know you might have got a few 50/50 wrong, couple of dodgy corners and then there was that "last man" tackle which you just could not call......then, think about your dissent experience that day...

Yes there will always be a grumble and yes you could make the perfect call and still get discontent, but, overall, in general, big picture..
 
zarathustra said:
Ciley has a good point. Ive certainly noticed that if I have a bit of an off day then dissent is higher, but if I go in like a boss then it can almost non existent with exception of the normal grumbles etc.

But, some players, and even while teams, would be on your back even if you get every single decision right, but a yellow or two normally quietens them down.
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There is always someone on the wrong end of your decision, so the potential for dissent always exists, regardless of whether you get every decision 100% correct. The deciding factor about whether that dissent materialises is mostly down to players attitudes/personality, and partly down to your positioning when making the decision. If you are in a credible position, players are less likely to question it. If you are not in a credible position then straight away you have opened the door for someone to have a moan.

Of course, there will always be players who just can't help themselves, and thats why it is so important that you stamp on dissent as early as possible. Other players will feed off the mouthy ones efforts and if unchecked you will just get more and more players chipping in. An early card for the gobshite normally nips the rest of it in the bud.
 
So, as referee, your own performance, whether it be the actual decision making, or the position you took, is a major? factor in dissent

Am not saying get every call right and nobody will moan......but, only from what I have seen and been involved in, (cos afterall that's all I can go on), the more you get right, the less dissent you get.....
 
Padfoot said:
There is always someone on the wrong end of your decision, so the potential for dissent always exists, regardless of whether you get every decision 100% correct. The deciding factor about whether that dissent materialises is mostly down to players attitudes/personality, and partly down to your positioning when making the decision. If you are in a credible position, players are less likely to question it. If you are not in a credible position then straight away you have opened the door for someone to have a moan.

Of course, there will always be players who just can't help themselves, and thats why it is so important that you stamp on dissent as early as possible. Other players will feed off the mouthy ones efforts and if unchecked you will just get more and more players chipping in. An early card for the gobshite normally nips the rest of it in the bud.
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Totally agree, some players will accept a correct decision that has gone against them, and some players won’t (as I had on Sunday).

And while dissent is always the players fault, if we can reduce that by being in a credible position to give accurate decisions then that’s all we can do, and we will deal with the rest (hopefully) in the appropriate manner.
 
If you keep getting decisions wrong then you're more likely to get more dissent than if everything is generally right, but there will always be players who show dissent, even if every decision in the game is correct.

The worst dissent shown in my game on Sunday was after a blatantly correct decision, which everyone knew was correct apart from one player. The away team scored, so the home team were to kick off. All away players in their own half and outside the centre circle. I blew my whistle for the restart and an away forward charged into the centre circle and tackled the kicker before he could play the ball! I managed to stop play in between laughing, at which the player shouted "No, there's F all wrong with that!" I heard his team explaining what he'd done wrong to him as he walked to me for the caution. His dissent wasn't an attempt at undermining my authority: he genuinely didn't know the law, but he does now! I have him again next weekend so we'll see if he's learnt.
 
markref said:
I blew my whistle for the restart and an away forward charged into the centre circle and tackled the kicker before he could play the ball!
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Just a thought on this situation, could you have cautioned the player twice here?
I can't see any sanction for infringements under Law 8 but is there a case for 'Delaying the Restart' under Law 12 and then the subsequent caution for dissent?
  • excessively delaying a restart
  • kicking or carrying the ball away, or provoking a confrontation by deliberately touching the ball after the referee has stopped play
Remember, the ball is not in play until it is kicked at the kick-off.
 
I did think about it very seriously! I gave him a really strong lecture, involving the captain who really helped him stay on. As it was I really expected him not to reach half time, which was ten minutes away. I really expected him to jump into a challenge recklessly, but he managed to calm himself down and finish the match without my having to speak to him again.
I think the trouble was that the team are poor and this was the first goal they've scored so they haven't been in this situation before!
 
I'm not criticising what you did but genuinely wondering if there's a case for a double caution here. Just thinking out aloud after reading what you said. FWIW I think I'd have done the same as you, including the laughing.
 
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