A&H

Junior/Youth Player walking away when trying to caution him

J

Jack M

Active Member
Level 6 Referee
In my U16 game, I was cautioning the Red 11 for dissent by action. When I asked his name he said it quickly amd began to walk off. He did this about 3 times. Eventually he gave in.

My question is: Is this dissent by action and thus punishable by a caution which would have been his second?
 
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Some refs write down the players names in note book, might have helped here, esp if you have the number ?
Some refs don't take a name (yes I know procedure at grass roots is name and number....)

I don't use it (not being in England) but maybe you could have called captain in to help, thus also making it clear to both that you are more than ready to sanction again for his next offence?

Whilst it can be justified as 2nd yellow, I don't think overall I would class it as good refereeing/game management to dismiss for this, I would hope if someone is getting a 2nd yellow for this, that you are getting all sanctions for fouls correct too.

Something like "listen, am being totally polite and respectful to you here, am only asking you for your name in a manner which I can understand please, be aware now that your next offence might well lead to a 2nd yellow"
 
absolutely.
that age group its all hormonal (I know ... 2 sons at that age group last year!)
But.. if its not the captain, then involve the captain also... or the manager if you dont feel the captain is up to the job.
''Please tell your player to come back to me or things will get worse...'' that kind of thing makes it very public warning of what you are about to do should you have to do it.
 
Yes and Yes... what you could have done is a big blow on your whistle. Warn him and his captain about his conduct and that he is now a few seconds away from a second yellow and a dismissal, that should help. You are now putting the responsibility on him and his captain and made everyone aware of the situation (helps if you are being observed) and that increases your credibility and match control. Now if he doesn't come in, you have to follow through with your warning and bin him.

He still doesn't want to give you his name, simples walk over to his coach and make it crystal clear that he needs to be off the FOP (as you have dismissed him) and if you don't get his proper name then you will be forced to include it in your misconduct report and if his coach fails to get him off the field, that you will be forced to abandon the game.

Might seem harsh at first, but it is your match control at stake here. (well that's what I have been told by an observer on a similar incident last season). The player I had to caution, kept walking back to his half although i kept moving towards him and asking him to come nearer, so I had a flash YC and took his number down. Lost marks for that
 
Agree with above.

Just state that the yellow is a done deal, but further actions/inaction/words could result in another yellow if he/she persists.

That usually does the trick!
 
Had a similar situation last season. A clear yellow for dissent. Player refused to come to me. I called the captain who, to his credit, was trying to drag the player to me but being resisted. Second caution for delaying restart. I had the luxury of teamsheets and the captain helped me out anyway.

I like Nalbi's post. Get the captain involved and make it obvious that the player is jeopardising his future participation.
 
Had one once when i carded an OA adult who was disgruntled to say the least at the award of a blatant trip penalty, I couldn't get his attention as i was Yellow carding him, he was giving it large to his mates so just got on with it anyway, as he turned and walked away he muttered an obscenity about me under his breath so I turned him again and I showed him a straight red as well for his troubles.... turned out to be the son of my company competitor watching on the side... OOPS...LOFL
Had him again later that season, quiet as a mouse!!!
 
I have found that with first cards ever given in youth football they don't realise they need to give their name. They just see the yellow accept it and leave never had a junior not come back when asked in that situation, although I have given a yellow when speaking to a player and he walks away mid sentence while telling him to cut something out.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Some refs write down the players names in note book, might have helped here, esp if you have the number ?
Click to expand...

If I had team sheets I would do that, but huge numbers of grass roots leagues in England don't have team sheets. Or at least not team sheets that have to be provided to the referee.
 
What I do is manage it to best ability control the player in booking face so if he starts walking off tell him to come back then you same sorry player being polite ask name I did not hear you is what I'd done.

But in the case where a player refuses to give name I'll give them 3 chances if by the 3rd they still refuse then I'm dismissing for failing to provide name so if refused by 3rd then it will be double yellow read
 
I had this last season in an OA game, cautioned a player for a tackle, he kept walking away and arguing.

He ended up with 2 yellows for his trouble, even the captain truffled to get him to come back.
 
In Australia we don't have to worry about the name (thankfully) because we always have teamsheets. But sometimes a player will be a short distance away facing you. You'll ask them to show you their number, and some smart alecks spin around fast. Never had anybody stupid enough to try doing it twice - would have no qualms whatsoever issuing the 2nd caution if they did.
 
You dont generally have team sheets for grass roots in England?

What do you refer to when submitting a sanction? Ok you might have players number and name, or as close to exact name as possible but for reg number or dats of birth or whatever?

Please tell me if the players name is say, Ukranian, you dont get out your book and they spell their name out letter by letter?

Not on wind up, just not aware re absence of team lines
 
Unfortunately most of the grassroots leagues (if not all) particularly at youth level here won't supply a team sheet for your to keep unless it is a county cup match. Therefore the practice and the training we get drilled on is get the name and yes if need may be spell it letter by letter.
 
You ask for the name, spelling if necessary. Then you put that name into the Whole Game system. If it is wrong, the club gets in trouble
 
Jack M said:
You ask for the name, spelling if necessary. Then you put that name into the Whole Game system. If it is wrong, the club gets in trouble
Click to expand...
After it is cleared up with you that you certainly have the right name according to your notes inputted into the whole game system.
 
Ciley Myrus said:
You dont generally have team sheets for grass roots in England?

What do you refer to when submitting a sanction? Ok you might have players number and name, or as close to exact name as possible but for reg number or dats of birth or whatever?

Please tell me if the players name is say, Ukranian, you dont get out your book and they spell their name out letter by letter?

Not on wind up, just not aware re absence of team lines
Click to expand...

It varies by league.

My local Saturday men's OA only give you a list of subs.

Men's Sunday give you a team sheet/card with player names

Women's OA give you a team sheet with names, registration numbers, list of club officials etc.

County Cup matches again have team sheet with list of players and team officials etc.

For a difficult to spell name, I will ask the player to spell it for me.
 
Jeezo, along with club AR thing and lack of team line sounds like a nightmare
You would actually stand with note book out in torrential rain after a mass brawl and take a name letter by letter?
Cant be a pleasant task!
 
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