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On the Whistle

Discussion in 'Match Incidents' started by GraemeS, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    I had an incident in my match last night - free kick just outside the "D" to a team a goal down in the dying seconds of a tight game. Obviously, I'm right on top of this to manage it ceremonially, including telling the player lining up to take the FK that it would be on the whistle. I walk the wall back and have taken maybe a single step towards taking my position when the kicker runs up and takes a shot.

    My instinct at this point was to quickly blow the whistle a few times to order a retake, but the keeper had made a save and gathered the ball. I decided that the correct thing to do was probably to go ahead with the retake, but it did feel like I was giving the attacker a second go - is there any case for playing on here even though I hadn't whistled to restart play? Or was I obliged to let him try again?
     
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  4. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    My own take on this would be (as you have made it clear you are waiting for the whistle), caution and retake, whether its a goal, goal kick or in the keepers hands. When you make it clear the game wont restart without your whistle, then that's it, all bets are off, the game will not restart without your whistle.
     
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  5. zarathustra

    zarathustra Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    I take it that a caution would just be for general unsporting behaviour?

    I am also in agreement with Ciley. Although I agree that making the striker retake the kick after the keeper has made the save seems unfair as he is essentially getting a second chance.
     
  6. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    He aint really getting a 2nd chance though as the 1st chance is null and void, no matter what happens, its going to be a retake, so chance one is nothing, non descript, the only chance he is getting is the first chance, which will only commence on the blow of the whistle.
     
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  7. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    There's certainly an argument for delaying the restart here, but I felt that didn't apply in this case as the player in question was the team hurrying and chasing the game? As in this case it would have been his second yellow as well, I think you have to have a pretty ironclad reason to give it!
     
  8. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    Its somewhere in the deepest darkest instructions that if someone (on the basis you are 100000000% sure they have done it unaware you have made it crystal that they are to wait) then its a YC.
    I suppose in your case if he screamed "I never heard you say that", then you would be able to side with him if that's how the game needed managed.
    Am not one for digging out the directives but it is (or certainly was) an instruction somewhere.
     
  9. Padfoot

    Padfoot The Enlightened One

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    As others have said, if you've made it clear that it is to be "on the whistle" then it's a retake and a caution. Can put the caution down for C1 or C2. What you definitely cannot do is nothing.

    That's why it's a good idea to hold your whistle up and point to it before pacing out the 10 yds......along with a loud call of "on the whistle please lads" or something along those lines.
     
  10. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    I had this in futsal last week. I triple blew the whistle and said take it again. Up go a couple of defenders protesting. Before I can think of how am I going to manage this another defender asks, would it be a goal if he scored? I smile and say very loudly "NO. and thank you for asking". Everyone gets on with the game.

    No card for me unless I am sure it was done deliberately knowing it will be retaken.
     
  11. Padfoot

    Padfoot The Enlightened One

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    So you wouldn't card unless you thought someone was trying to gain an advantage from the retake?

    How about the fact that someone didn't care about your instruction and decided to take it anyway, hoping you would let it go?
     
  12. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper Member Level 7 Referee

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    I think that from whatever angle you come at this from, it's unsporting behaviour. So deserving of a YC. The player knows this and so is taking the risk that you will be lenient. So a second yellow converts to a red. No controversy whatsoever. Only strong refereeing. However, very easy to allow a retake in the heat of the moment with no consequence. As long as you felt in control of the situation, then you made the correct decision for the game.
     
  13. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    @Padfoot please read my wording slowly and carefully. I am beginning to think you are deliberately misreading my posts.

    Never said "gain an advantage from a retake". Never said "don't care about my instructions". Just in case you actually didn't understand what I meant I will say it a different way. In this circumstance, if the player thought had he scored a goal the goal would have stood, it is not a card. In such case it is unlikely for it to be a deliberate 'disobeying' of instructions or delaying the restart etc etc, but more like too occupied with thinking "if I shoot now I can score a goal".

    I don't go out there thinking of how many different ways I can find to card players. If there is doubt, give them the benefit.
     
  14. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    This was essentially my thinking at the time. If it's done as a genuine mistake, it can't be dissent and if wasting time disadvantages the takers team, it's fairly hard to justify delaying the restart. And as is often the case where "general USB" is suggested, there's nothing in the laws to support it other than the fact that you can give a caution if you really want to.
     
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  15. Padfoot

    Padfoot The Enlightened One

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    Think you need to consider what you type, slowly and carefully! You appear to be saying that you wouldn't card unless it was done deliberately..."knowing it will be retaken"....who is knowing? You? The player? If the player knows it will be retaken, why has he deliberately chosen to ignore your instructions?

    Yes, too occupied about scoring a goal to pay any attention to what you just clearly stated i.e. "on the whistle"......in other words, deliberately ignoring what you have just instructed.

    You must be very popular, giving players the benefit of the doubt as you do....."oh, i'm sure you didn't mean to land your studs on that chaps knee, never mind, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt instead of sending you off....".

    How do you know it's a genuine mistake? Because the player says so? Gullible much?

    It's a caution, if I were observing you, and you'd made clear to everyone the kick was "on the whistle", and someone ignored that, I would expect a caution......if there wasn't one, well, think it might just feature in the report.

    It's certainly USB (lack of respect for the game) and if they were stood right next to you when you stated "on the whistle" I'd be inclined to call it dissent (can't be bothered to listen to what the ref said) as well.
     
  16. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Let me spin it round - how do you know it's not a genuine mistake? It's a judgement call for the referee on the day to make, nothing more or less than that. And if I believe it to be a genuine mistake, I certainly don't buy your argument that "can't be bothered to listen to what the ref said" is a mandatory cautionable offence, and as for "lack of respect for the game"....seriously?

    Also - it would feature in the report? Not the debrief? Surely the very least you'd do is ask the referee why he felt a card wasn't necessary? I'd be appealing that straight away if it appeared in the report without even a hint of post-match discussion.
     
  17. lincs22

    lincs22 Supply League Observer Staff Member Observer/Tutor

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    The better one is - takes the free-kick when you are not ready and scores. The players face is a picture when you order the re-take and then caution the taker.
     
  18. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Saw QPR player sent off several years ago now after getting 2nd yellow in exactly these circumstances by Mr Andy Hall!
     
  19. Padfoot

    Padfoot The Enlightened One

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    Not interested in whether it was a genuine mistake or not.......the tackle that lands studs on an opponents knee may well be a genuine mistake....does it change how I am going to deal with it? Of course it doesn't, and neither should it for anyone else.

    Oh I would certainly be asking why the player wasn't cautioned during the debrief, and then I would still be deducting you marks on the report. For sheer gullibility if nothing else......how many times have you heard players crying "I didn't mean it ref..." as you send them off? Well, maybe in your case letting them off with a warning as it was a "genuine mistake".
     
  20. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Where in law does it state that a player must be cautioned for taking a free kick before the whistle is blown? It doesn't, so marking a referee down for not cautioning would be incorrect. The FA used to say this was a mandatory caution, but they stopped as that viewpoint wasn't backed up by law.

    If the referee thinks it was a genuine mistake then that his his interpretation, and is totally different to an accidental challenge that is reckless or uses excessive force.
     
  21. Padfoot

    Padfoot The Enlightened One

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    Match Control......nothing to do with AoL........
     
  22. Mintyref

    Mintyref Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    If you've already told them its on the whistle then it's not a mistake.............Could have been a quickie on my pitch.........
     
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