RefLive

Old Throw in Law

Discussion in 'Laws of the game' started by Sheffields Finest, Sep 23, 2017.

  1. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    989
    County FA/Organisation:
    Non-affiliated
    I was in a pub today and watching the Leicester game on BT, got into some discussions about handball etc all good fun and they were impressed i knew my stuff. A bloke then asked me a situation from a few years ago that i shall share.. It goes back to the time when you didn't have to stand 2m from a thrower...knobby striker decides to stand directly in a defenders face taking a throw, as he tries to take it he follows him down the line etc. This continues for a while before the defender throws the ball hard at the defenders face and connects..... Now, we all should know the outcome, however have a guess what the referee gave.?????
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. RefLive Advertisement RefLive

    RefLive
  4. Mintyref

    Mintyref Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Messages:
    603
    Likes Received:
    394
    County FA/Organisation:
    East Riding of Yorkshire
    Stop being coy @Sheffield's Finest, it was really you, wasn't it?
     
  5. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    300
    I'm praying for throw in to the opposition obviously

    (there may be traces of sarcasm in this post)
     
  6. Russell Jones

    Russell Jones Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    702
    County FA/Organisation:
    Herts
    Red for the thrower for VC and Yellow for the fella with the bleeding nose for Unsorting Behaviour? :)
     
  7. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    989
    County FA/Organisation:
    Non-affiliated
    Striker got a bloody nose and a yellow card for his troubles!!!
     
  8. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    By the current laws, it should be a red card for the thrower (if excessive force was used, as I infer) and yellow card for the opponent (failing to respect required distance). Restart is an indirect free-kick to thrower's team. An example would be Sanchez against Leicester last season (Mike Jones was refereeing). I think the old law had this scenario as disciplinary action and retaken throw, but not 100% certain.

    Funnily enough, I had a weird throw-in incident this weekend. Two players from the same team were having a bit of an argument. The thrower churlishly threw the ball at his team-mate, whereupon it rebounded to the opponent. I thought it was a legal throw (not reckless/excessive) and so let play continue (the attacking team almost scored). However, if I had deemed it violent conduct, would I have been obliged to dismiss the thrower and give an IFK to the opposition? Technically the ball would have come onto the field, or would it be a foul throw?
     
  9. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    392
    County FA/Organisation:
    Retired
    Even under the 'old' throw-in law there was still a caution for a player who "unfairly distracts or impedes the thrower." It didn't specify how play should be restarted but assuming the ball had come into play and the referee stopped play to issue the caution, you would have restarted with an IFK whereas if you had cautioned the player before the throw was taken, you would continue with the throw.

    However it sounds like there'd be a case for a red card for the thrower for striking the opponent with a thrown object with excessive force, based on the description.
     
    SLI39 likes this.
  10. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    As an addendum, I should say that the yellow card is incurred for USP, not failing to respect required distance.

    However, there is nothing, it seems to me, in the amended LOTG which justifies an IFK/DFK restart for a throw that was taken recklessly etc. The clause pertaining to any other infringement (throw-in taken by opposing team) should be used in a scenario involving one's own team or against an opponent.
    I am happy to be enlightened!
     
  11. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    392
    County FA/Organisation:
    Retired
    I would say there is. Law 15 says that:
    From this statement it can be clearly inferred that if the ball is thrown at an opponent carelessly, recklessly or with excessive force then the referee does not allow play to continue. Since the throw itself was correctly taken and play is now ongoing, Law 12 would apply as follows:
     
    santa sangria likes this.
  12. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    Hmm, this is an interesting one. I see your point. I think I remember having a conversation on here with a referee who argued that, in such a case, the throw-in had not been successfully completed (I will try and find a reference later), although admittedly that would suggest a retake as the logical restart.

    'The referee allows play to continue' certainly hints that disciplinary action should follow a deviation from the accepted procedure, but isn't it a bit of a stretch to invoke law 12? I would prefer if the laws made this clear, as I would have no qualms about applying a similar rule to the clause involving 'thrown objects', but I am yet to be shown a clear vindication of that in the text. For me a retake for the opponent after dealing with the offence would not be incorrect in law.
     
  13. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    392
    County FA/Organisation:
    Retired
    For me it would be. In words of the Law 15 extract given above, we have a situation which posits "a player [...] correctly taking a throw-in" and the ball already having entered the field of play. In these circumstances the throw-in has been completed and the ball is now in play which (as far as I can tell) means Law 12 is indeed applicable.
     
    santa sangria likes this.
  14. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2015
    Messages:
    939
    Likes Received:
    300
    (Glad this has come up as it is the answer to the question I posed in that other throw in thread that ahem... ran out of steam).
     
    alexgr likes this.
  15. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    Thanks for the insight about reading the laws in a linear way. I shall defer to experience here, unless new information should come to light. I hadn't considered the idea that a throw-in taken carelessly/recklessly etc. could constitute correct procedure, but you make a persuasive argument. In that sense the ball is in play and has occurred on the field, so a DFK restart is perfectly plausible.

    I am now wondering what sort of offence the 'any other infringement' clause is intended for.
     
    Russell Jones likes this.
  16. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    So, in the case of a free kick that is kicked at a player/official/coach, how are we restarting in each scenario if this is deemed to have been undertaken in a careless or reckless manner? Sorry for opening a can of worms here!
     
  17. alexgr

    alexgr Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2017
    Messages:
    115
    Likes Received:
    63
    County FA/Organisation:
    Oxfordshire
    Surely the restart would be a throw in (assuming the official struck is in or around the technical area) and a caution/dismissal etc. The ball would be in play, no? My gut says that doesn't sound quite right though, I seem to want to expect a DFK from the boundary line where the ball left the FOP perhaps?
     
  18. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    Thanks, I believe you're right about the boundary line DFK according to law 12 (see attachment). Where I was a little confused is whether the ball is actually in play when someone commits violent conduct from a throw-in or set piece. Peter has convinced me that this is the case, so the DFK restarts apply.

    Against one's own team, this becomes an IFK.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. AlexF

    AlexF Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2014
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    234
    County FA/Organisation:
    Canada - OSA
    Out of curiosity, where do you see indirect free kick in this section?
     
  20. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2016
    Messages:
    1,811
    Likes Received:
    989
    County FA/Organisation:
    Non-affiliated
    I'm confused, if there wasn't a set required distance before what has the blooded nose player done wrong??
    Ive seen a few in Youtube where they do that flip throw and someone gets it in the kisser but this predates the 2-metre rule so what was the requirement back then??
     
  21. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2015
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    45
    County FA/Organisation:
    Berks and Bucks
    Sorry, I may have misspoken, as that was my understanding from previous laws. Has 'against a team-mate' been added to DFK offences? Intuitively that doesn't sound right, and the omission of it from the section made me want to say IFK.
     
  22. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    392
    County FA/Organisation:
    Retired
    It would be a referee's judgement call but potentially, under the old law he could still have been considered guilty of unfairly impeding the thrower.
     

Share This Page