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Law 12

Discussion in 'Laws of the game' started by Nalbi, Oct 19, 2017.

  1. Nalbi

    Nalbi Active Member Level 5 Referee

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    Right in the middle of my review for the promotion seminar tonight :drown::drown: i got confused by a question posted on the arereferee.com website.

    What is the correct restart if a player during play leaves the FOP to violently strike a team official from the opposition?

    I answered as RC + DFK on the boundary line nearest to the offence. Which was flagged as wrong and the correct answer should have been an IFK!

    I'm so confused now. Quoting directly from section 4

    " If, when the ball is in play:
    •• a player commits an offence against a match official or an opposing player,
    substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official outside the field
    of play or
    •• a substitute, substituted or sent off player, or team official commits an
    offence against, or interferes with, an opposing player or match official
    outside the field of play,
    play is restarted with a free kick on the boundary line nearest to where the
    offence/interference occurred; a penalty kick is awarded if this is a direct free
    kick offence within the offender’s penalty area."

    Violent conduct last time i checked was a DFK offence!!! :hmmm::confused::confused::confused::hmmm::hmmm:
     
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  4. Nalbi

    Nalbi Active Member Level 5 Referee

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    and then the FAQ section on the IFAB website
    "Q6: Why is an offence against someone who is not an opponent now a direct free kick? Does this include dissent/offensive language?
    If, for example, a player strikes a team-mate, substitute, team official or, perhaps even worse, a match official this is serious but only restarting with an IDFK suggested that the offence was not serious so it is now a direct free kick for any offence (directly) against anyone (except an opponent)."
     
  5. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    I would certainly be inclined to agree with your answer on grounds of common sense, but maybe technically the first offence committed was leaving the FOP without permission? Although the card colour would be determined by which incident was the most severe, in theory you stopped play at the split second the player left the pitch? And the restart for leaving without permission would be an IFK.

    Doesn't seem right to me, but I can just about see why there might be an argument for an IFK there?
     
  6. A Freethinker

    A Freethinker Well-Known Member

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    Agree with Graeme here player leaves field of play first so IFK, but doesn't look right giving a red followed by an IDF. Maybe @Brian Hamilton could give us his expectation of sanctions in this scenario as an assessor?
     
  7. Mintyref

    Mintyref Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    Not all of these quiz answers are correct............
     
  8. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Both answers can be correct depending on if you decide to play advantage on the leaving of the FOP offence which you are entitled to do so.

    The question should include when you stopped play, after the player leaving the FOP or after the violent strike.
     
  9. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

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    I still maintain that unless the answers in a quiz are officially supported by the IFAB, they cannot be considered authoritative.
     
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  10. AlexF

    AlexF Well-Known Member

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    Again (as noted in 2-3 other discussions here), the areferee site quiz is using a FIFA quiz from a few years ago and not all of the questions/answers have been updated to match up with the new Laws. Unfortunately.
     
  11. Nalbi

    Nalbi Active Member Level 5 Referee

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    I think the restart is dependent on the nature of the offence, that's why the law reads "penalty kick is awarded if this is a direct free kick offence within the offender’s penalty area". That's why I would be indicating a DFK/PK rather an IFK since the offence is actually a foul under DFK rather than IFK.
     
  12. xPositor

    xPositor Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Even then, it doesn't necessarily mean the answer is correct ;)
     
  13. SLI39

    SLI39 Active Member Level 7 Referee

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    The only justification for an IFK restart would be if the quiz meant to say that the player struck a spectator. Although law 12 suggests a dropped ball restart for an offence against 'any other person', surely there is no conceivable scenario in which a player can (in play) leave the field without infringing C7?
     
  14. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    This is a law change from 16-17 that hasnt been updated in areferee.

    Restart of play after fouls and misconduct
    Old text New text
    If the ball is in play and a player
    commits an offence inside the field of
    play against:
    • (…)
    • a team mate, substitute, substituted
    player, team official or match official
    – a direct free kick or penalty kick (…)
    If the ball is in play and a player
    commits an offence outside the field of
    play:
    • if the player is already off the field
    of play, play is restarted with a
    dropped ball
    if the player leaves the field of play
    to commit the offence, play is
    restarted with an indirect free kick
    from the position of the ball when
    play was stopped.
    However, if a
    player leaves the field of play as part
    of play and commits an offence
    against another player, play is
    restarted with a free kick taken on
    the boundary line nearest to where
    the offence occurred; for direct free
    kick offences, a penalty kick is
    awarded if this is within the
    offender’s penalty area.
    If the ball is in play and a player
    commits an offence inside the field of
    play:
    • (…)
    • a team mate, substitute, substituted
    or sent off player, team official or
    match official – a direct free kick or
    penalty kick (…)
    If, when the ball is in play:
    a player commits an offence against
    a match official or an opposing
    player, substitute, substituted or
    sent off player, or team official
    outside the field of play or
    • a substitute, substituted or sent off
    player, or team official commits an
    offence against, or interferes with,
    an opposing player or match official
    outside the field of play,
    play is restarted with a free kick on the
    boundary line nearest to where the
    offence/interference occurred; a
    penalty kick is awarded if this is a
    direct free kick offence within the
    offender’s penalty area.

    It actually says no change just clearer wording but I would beg to differ.
     
  15. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Cipy and paste wasnt very good so here is a screen grab:

    Screenshot_20171019-171058.png
     
  16. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

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    The correct answer is to click the "report errors" button on the areferee.com GUI after you have selected your answer, and to explain to them that there is not enough information in their question for a conclusive answer and/or areferee.com has the wrong answer. They've updated the question pool really well since the new laws IMHO and the quiz is a really valuable resource.
     
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  17. Brian Hamilton

    Brian Hamilton I am the storm Observer/Tutor

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    areferee.com is wrong, which is why I don't recommend them for revision.

    When a player commits two offences at the same time, the principle of no surprises applies here. If the offender hits someone, everyone expects them to be sent off. If they are sent off for a striking offence, the restart is a DFK. This may not be spelt out line by line in the good book for you but if you consider a logical thought process, a DFK is the only "right" outcome.
     
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  18. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    But in this case the two offences were not committed at the same time. Although by the same player, one clearly happened after the other (or in quick succession as the latest IFAB circular refers to them). You can only restart according to the striking offence if you have played advantage for the first offence.
    If you did not play advantage then the ball was no longer in play when the striking happened. You can not determine the restart on an action when the ball was not in play.

    OP question is no different to this 'quiz' question: While the ball is in play a player is carelessly pushed by an opponent. The player then immediately violently strikes the opponent. Which team restarts the game?

    The answer is simple, (unless you have played advantage on the careless push) the player gets sent off for VC but his team gets the free kick, even if everyone expects the free kick to be for the VC.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2017
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  19. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Had this exact scenario recently... on a few occasions in fact.
    Player fouled, carelessly or recklessly. Blow whistle. VC reaction. Whilst his team still gets free kick he gets an early bath.
     
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  20. Brian Hamilton

    Brian Hamilton I am the storm Observer/Tutor

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    Referee is the sole timekeeper, so if I said they happened at the same time, they happened at the same time ;)
     
  21. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

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    Several of the responses here seem to suggest that because the player leaving the field occurred first, that's the offence that dictates the restart. I thank that's both flawed logic and goes against what the laws of the game clearly say. When a player leaves the field without permission it's an offence to be sure, but not one for which you need to stop play - for instance, if the player leaves the field and does nothing, you don't have to stop play, you can just wait for the next stoppage before taking whatever action you deem necessary.

    The various passages from the law that are quoted above, also say that the type of restart after a player leaves the field and commits an offence while off the field, depends on the the nature of that subsequent offence, not the leaving the field offence. It's not so much a question of playing the advantage as it is the simple fact that you don't need to stop play at all for the player leaving without permission, only if they then commit another offence.

    So just as if the player had left the field and done nothing, the restart would be whatever play had been stopped for before you caution the player, the restart here is decided by what they did after leaving the field, not the act of leaving the field itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2017
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  22. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    To bring it back to the OP, I'm only trying to think of a way that an IFK could be the correct restart - I'd be going DFK all day as soon as a punch is thrown.
     

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