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Drawbacks of the VAR system

Discussion in 'Laws of the game' started by Peter Grove, Nov 13, 2017.

  1. Peter Grove

    Peter Grove Well-Known Member

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  4. Tino Best

    Tino Best Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Good article GREAT HEADLINE. Made me laugh out loud!
     
  5. JamesL

    JamesL Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Have to agree with the article in the main
     
  6. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Nothing in the article is "wrong" per-se, but all the problems the article highlights surround poorly written legislation from the German FA and are often the result of artificial limitations placed on the VAR.

    We've had this discussion on here may times before and I'm going to say the same thing I say every time - let the qualified and experienced referees in the VAR control room use their knowledge and experience to make decisions. Cut out the ridiculous delays where the referee has to jog to the sideline and watch multiple replays, and stop trying to randomly limit when they are and aren't allowed to get involved and it'll all run much smoother.
     
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  7. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    But you're taking away (wrongly) I believe in the principle of 1 man in charge.

    Secondly if you allow ALL decisions to possibly be looked at by VAR, apart from the technical/practical difficulties of judging an incident while play continues, you are going to get players constantly wanting the VAR involved.
     
  8. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    I personally think "one man in charge" is rubbish - I think that's old-fashioned thinking and takes away from the credibility of the AR's and VAR's, all of who are qualified and experienced referees even at my level, let alone when you reach a level where VAR can be used. When I'm in the middle with NAR's, I tell them to lead me in areas of the pitch where they have more credibility (which I define as a 10m circle around them at all times and when they're closer than me if I've been caught out by a quick break). And I think there are certainly times where this principal should be extended to allow the VAR to be the most credible member of the refereeing team.

    I'm also perfectly happy with the principal of taking the responsibility to decide if the VAR should be consulted out of the referees hands. Either let the VAR intervene only when he deems it appropriate (with the caveat that he should only do so if there is a mistake in law or a game-changing decision is being made), or my even more preferred option, introduce a limited number of manager challenges. The latter idea might have the added benefit of improving manager behaviour as well! Not happy with a decision? Challenge it formally or shut up!
     
  9. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    The principle of one man in charge was removed when fourth officials were allowed to get involved in missed refereeing decisions.

    My view has always been, and still remains, that it will only work if the man upstairs can make the decision. The referee at the side of the pitch watching a video replay is ridiculous, just trust in the guidance of the person that has watched multiple replays. It might well work at big international venues, but can you imagine at somewhere like Loftus Road, where the crowd are right on top of the touchlines?
     
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  10. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    I'm quite looking forward to having a look at the monitor if it ends up at Loftus Road:p - given it will only be introduced at the top level initially, I'm not holding my breath!;)

    My big problem with unilateral VAR decisions is it will become like I've been told Rugby League has become - pitch referee making no major decisions himself and leaving all to VAR - just to be on the safe side.

    My other problem, that no one has ever answered is how do you correct an incorrectly raised offside flag - answer of course is you can't - which will in my view lead to all offsides being judged by VAR.

    Restarts and ball in play after an 'incident' are also glossed over without real thought IMHO.

    Managers challenges - a big no no for me - bound to be used for tactical/time consuming purposes
     
  11. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    The German example there is great.....yes it might be a pen..for which the VAR intervened....but, it overlooks he was offside in the first place!

    my view will always be.....striker misses a PK.
    keeper lets in a easy shot
    ref misses a handball
    lino misses an offside

    all human,...in perfect world nobody would do wrong but hey ho...they do
     
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  12. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    Ive had misgivings about VAR for a long while, my posts would back that up, there are a few positives but on the whole its a whole can of worms that once you open you can't go back on... Start reviewing everything and where do you stop, 10 seconds back, 30 seconds back, its a mess.... and who thought up that jog to the side by the ref needs his bumps feeling!!!
     
  13. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Limit the number of challenges and/or punish a manager for an incorrect challenge and/or stop the clock while a challenge is underway and that problem goes away.
     
  14. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Give each side on appeal a la Cricket and Tennis.

    Simple.

    You can use it on anything from a throw in to violent conduct. State your case. Off you go!
     
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  15. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    May I also add that you check every goal for offside/ball in or out of play automatically.
     
  16. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Sorry Graeme,

    That is a gross over simplification - if a manager has challenge(s) left near the end of the game, then to slow the game down, hope to gain a few extra seconds, then they will use the challenge system to do that - much like we get subs on for 5 seconds now - why do they do that - serves no useful purpose except for tactical/'gamesmanship' reasons.
     
  17. GraemeS

    GraemeS Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    But as you say, this already happens with subs anyway. So if we penalise a failed challenge with the loss of a sub, we're not introducing new delays, we're swapping a sub delay with a challenge delay.
     
  18. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    We're not swapping, we're adding - don't think we're going to change each other's minds Graeme, so will leave it at that!;)
     
  19. Paul_S

    Paul_S Member Level 4 Referee

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    On challenges, you could do one challenge per game per team. If the challenge is correct you keep it, if it’s wrong you lose it. Refs are mandated to stop their watch during the challenge (not just hold their arm in the air to make everyone think they’ve stopped their watch).

    Overall I’d prefer we dump the whole sorry experiment. Goal-line technology is good, but for everything else the “human” aspect
    is part of what makes the game interesting.
     
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  20. one

    one Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    No you may not. :)
    This mean you can't genuinely celebrate any goal until it's confirmed by the VAR.
    Atmosphere lost.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  21. Darius

    Darius Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    Course you can. You just probably shouldn’t pull out the elaborate one you’ve been planning for six months in training if you think you’re close!

    Don’t look at fouls, unless the team requests it and in that case they must state which player etc
     
  22. J79

    J79 Member

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    As we've already discussed before on the forum and as is again said by some in this topic, two key changes should be made :

    1) Video referee becomes head referee and makes the calls, on-field referee is basically just another assistant referee.
    2) Teams should get a couple of VAR requests.

    That'd solve many of the current problems. Problems we've for sure all predicted and that apparently only the (I suppose well-paid) IFAB experts couldn't see coming. Belgium started with VAR this season (not in all games though), they've evaluated it last week and they will officially ask IFAB to let the video referee make the calls. Let's see if IFAB can acknowledge their mistake and change this ahead of the World Cup.

    Main problem that will remain will probably be "ball in play after VAR incident".

    On a sidenote, I don't agree with the "referee mistakes are part of the game" theory. No, they're not. Yes, football is a game of mistakes... but mistakes made by the players. Good and bad decisions/skills by the players should decide a match, not those by the referee, who is just there to make sure the game is played by the rules.

    Extra: there should be more and clear punishments for referees who still mess up, there are (in a lot of cases) no excuses anymore.
     
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