Double Red

[socal lurker]

On day one, two players were sent off, with George Best dismissed for offensive language to the referee (Yes, that used to happen!)

nah, I have a hard time believing George would have used offensive language

(I actually saw him play when the old US NASL was where soccer stars went to collect a check when they could no longer excel in the competitive leagues in Europe but could still look good and get paid reasonably well against week competition.)

 

[Big Cat]

Because the "no flashing cards" requirement doesn't exist at National League Premier and above. They want it done quickly so that the game isn't delayed, and at those levels team sheets are hardly likely to be wrong. At levels below that they want you to take your time, not so that it helps the crowd and participants in any way, rather to make sure the player reported is the right player.

Yes, I mean I understand that
But what we see at higher levels is not 'best in class' because the cards are usually flashed in the direction of players who have turned their backs and show the usual levels of disdain and disrespect towards the Referee
So I appreciate the points you've made, but completely disregarding 'good practice' is detrimental to the Match Officiating

 

[RustyRef]

Yes, I mean I understand that
But what we see at higher levels is not 'best in class' because the cards are usually flashed in the direction of players who have turned their backs and show the usual levels of disdain and disrespect towards the Referee
So I appreciate the points you've made, but completely disregarding 'good practice' is detrimental to the Match Officiating

Don't disagree, but as I said it is what they are told to do. I can understand why, if you have 60,000 people watching in a stadium and millions watching worldwide does anyone really want a 30 second delay whilst the referee isolates the player, asks their name, warns as to future misconduct and then shows the card? With respect, and I came through the same supply league as you so I am disrespecting myself, the 30 paying spectators and a dog called Felix probably aren't deemed as important as the masses I mentioned above

Especially as if it does cause confusion at those higher levels they have someone to ask, the 4th official. When I was on the National League I was frequently asked by a home official who had got the yellow card, and I left the year before comms were brought into that level so it wasn't something I could always answer, at least not immediately. I've also had the TV floor manager ask me the same on more than one occasion. But with comms they can answer immediately as if the 4th official isn't sure he will be straight on the comms, and the referee will have probably already confirmed it. And even before comms, even me in my often-confused state would have been able to work out what had happened when a player from each team had just trudged past me down the tunnel.

 

[socal lurker]

I’d just add that the process in England (below professional) isn’t universal outside England. Everyone would be shocked if I asked a player‘s name in any game I do—we rely on the numbers and the information provided To match the number to the name. And we aren’t required to explain the card before showing. The reality is that most players know exactly why they are being cautioned--and that is especially true with the professionals, who more often than not know they will be cautioned and why as soon as the whistle blows. (they may not agree, but they know.) Where I am, refs are expected to use judgment in deciding how to execute the caution. Where it’s obvious, simply showing is accepted. Depending on the tenor and the age/skill level, I‘ll talk to the player first or not.

 

[RustyRef]

I’d just add that the process in England (below professional) isn’t universal outside England. Everyone would be shocked if I asked a player‘s name in any game I do—we rely on the numbers and the information provided To match the number to the name. And we aren’t required to explain the card before showing. The reality is that most players know exactly why they are being cautioned--and that is especially true with the professionals, who more often than not know they will be cautioned and why as soon as the whistle blows. (they may not agree, but they know.) Where I am, refs are expected to use judgment in deciding how to execute the caution. Where it’s obvious, simply showing is accepted. Depending on the tenor and the age/skill level, I‘ll talk to the player first or not.

Agree, it is very much an English thing, cards are flashed in almost every other country I can think of.

 

[deusex]

The footage we have is poor but I don't see enough for SFP once let alone twice.
Impossible for me to call with the angle we've got in fairness to the referee.

 

[Mr Dean]

The red card is a communication tool; every player and every spectator, regardless of what language they speak, should know who is being sent off by the showing of the red card. Flashing the red card into a crowd of players does not achieve this. Clear communication is especially important during the rare event of a double red card. If this match had commentators, I would expect them to be completely oblivious to the fact two players had been sent off and confused as to which player was sent off.

The referee should have pulled one player to the side and sent him off then pulled the other player to the side and sent him off, making it absolutely clear that the two players are being sent off.

 

[Anubis]

nobody is saying, pull the players close, isolate, take names

merely, make it clear to one and all who is getting the card

trying to justify a flash card as a defuser when its not been a defuser is poor

that plus sending them both packing at same time, lack of awareness

happy with the decision but the administration of the dismissal (s) is awful