A&H

Junior/Youth Difficult Match - Could I Have Done Anything Differently?

M

Matthew

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I've been lurking on this forum for a few months now, but I had a game tonight that gave me a reason to join.

I've just had an U15's match (Red v Yellow for the purpose of this), which was the most challenging game I've had all season. Just as a bit of background, Red could secure the title with a win.

The game started off ok, competitive, a few arial battles and niggly fouls, but nothing major. That was until Red went 1-0 up. Pretty much instantaneously, the yellows began fouling the opposition pretty much every time they got the ball. I must've warned 3/4 of their players for committing a couple of fouls, informing them that they would be cautioned for persistent fouling if they didn't calm down. Then, just before half time, I awarded a gaol kick to the reds, after the striker struck the ball against the cross bar. Of course, the striker disagreed and decided to tell me to open my eyes and watch the big circular thing, before putting his hands around his eyes (to show glasses, I'm sure you know what I mean). As a result, I called him over, said that his behaviour was unacceptable before yellow carding him for dissent. For the remainder of the half, every decision I made was questioned by a yellow player, with various shouts coming from all over the pitch. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to take any action as I couldn't be sure which player was shouting the abuse.

Obviously, I couldn't allow it to go on. So, at half time I got the yellow's together and explained to them that what I was hearing was not acceptable and anyone who continued to behave in that way would be booked.

Fortunately, it seemed to have worked until about ten minutes from the end. Two players challenged for the ball perfectly legally before it bounced back to the keeper. They then went nose to nose, being right on top of the incident I stepped in immediately and calmed them down before taking their names, with the intention of cautioning both of them. I first took the name of the yellow player, and as I turned to the Red player to take his name, the yellow player simply said 'w*nker'. I turned back to him, told him that he was now going to be dismissed for the use of foul and abusive language, before showing him the red card.

I then continued the game, it was 3-3 going into the last minute when the Reds broke away. The winger got to the touch line before playing it back for the striker to tap in. One of the yellow defenders then came running out towards me, he must've run at least 30 yards, to argue that the striker was offside (ball played backwards, he was 5 yards onside). His team mates stopped him just before he got to me, but I decided that his manner was unacceptable and cautioned him for dissent.

Suffice to say, the Yellow manager wasn't happy. He asked whether I was sending the bookings/red in, to which I replied yes and explained what the consequences would be for me (possible suspension etc) if I didn't. He then told me they would fight the red. I left it at that, but as far as I'm concerned, the dismissed player doesn't have a leg to stand on. Apparently, he claimed it wasn't aimed at me, but I'm in absolutely no doubt that it was.

Sorry it's a bit long winded, but I wanted t get all the details in. Does anyone think I could've done anything differently? Believe it or not, it was the first red card I've given in 5 years, did I make the correct call with the red card?

Thanks for your input :)
 
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You'll find that at 14-17 years of age, players are developing into young adults. As a result, they have recently found out that a mouth is not just for firing food into :D. They complain about every decision, are petulant and cheeky, they have an expectation that their actions won't be punished by the referee, the list goes on. It's inexperience and a learning curve as they progress.

It seems as though in this match this was your main problem. Dealing with dissent and petulant behaviour of young players. As for dealing with it, you've explained in a paragraph regarding what action you took, but I can't really judge whether or not it was truely effective. It's all hunky dory explaining it on here, but i'd have to have been there to see for myself.

First thing in dealing dissent, is to deal with each player individually. If there are shouts from all over the pitch, ignore them. Only hear what has to be heard. Be aware of those who are consistantly 'at it'. Maintain focus on the game and continue to make decisions in a confident manner. It's easy to get caught up with criticism from players/coaches. If they see a weakness here, they are like wolfs baying for blood. If you have to deal with a player use the word in the ear first (a passing message to the player 'i'm not having that my friend, you're testing my patience', or to that effect), then public warning, then caution if neccesary. The key here is how you deliver the message, in all stages. You have to be polite, but it has to come across in a clear, concise and confident manner, showing that you are strong in character. If you have to use a public warning, stop the game and make sure it's for a good 30 seconds. Ask the player to meet at a netural spot and gather your thoughts as you walk. Then make sure the message is heard not just by the player, but by those who are nearby. If they don't take heed, caution if they step out of line again. So in effect they get 3 strikes and out. Take this only as a guide. There are many situations where you don't have to go through this. For instance if a player approaches you in such a way that it's very aggressive, then by all means caution. The tactic above is useful for the 'nagging' player, which most youth players are.

In summing up the whole topic, there are some games where no matter what steps you take, the players do not take the hint. You have no option, in order to keep control of the match, to caution for dissent a number of times. Not the sort of things you want to deal with, but you'll make things hard for yourself if you don't

As per the ordering off; was it right? Of course, no question. Don't know why you are in doubt here? With regards to the manager appealing the ordering off, he's chancing his luck. He thinks if mentions to you about appealing you'll think twice about putting a report in. As long as you put in the report as it happened, then he is simply wasting his time.

You probably thought you've had a bad game here. But that is the natural response to being criticised as referee. It's all about opinions and most of the time players/coaches opinions fall way off the mark with what actually happened.
 
Difficult to say how you could have handled it better without seeing the game.

The Yellow manager, I suppose, is perfectly entitled to challenge the red card, but, calling someone that is a red anyway, whether directed at you or someone else OFFINABUS.

Sometimes, when a whole team is getting verbal with me, and it's hard to pin-point the worse offenders, a quiet-ish word with a player first, then a stern talking to (stop the game so EVERYONE can see it) then the next time I identify a player giving dissent he goes in the book, if they continue with it as a team, someone else goes in the book for it until they shut up.

Sometimes a word with the Captain helps, and if he is one of the verbal players, a card for him might help, but at youth level, Captain's are usually just their for the toss and don't exert any real influence on the game.
 
Thanks for your replies :)

I don't particularly feel as though I had a bad game, but it does make me question whether I could've done something differently. Looking back, along with reading the replies, suggests that I couldn't. Still, reviewing my performances can't be a bad thing :)

MattyontheWhistle - Spot on. The captain does tend to be in name only in most of my games and is of little use in terms of managing the game! :)
 
I don't really categorize this as a 'difficult' match so to speak. The players were full of complaints and earned every caution they got. I would say you handled it right -- although an earlier caution for persistent infringement to someone on the yellow team would've been appropriate and may have shown that you meant business from the start. Remember, persistent infringement doesn't mean that one player racks up a huge foul count (necessarily), it can also mean that one team in particular are getting a lot of fouls and it seems like their game plan is 'foul the opponent whenever they get the ball'. For me, the red card was absolutely right, let them waste their money with an appeal. It will likely never get to that stage: sometimes refs won't send the paperwork in for fear of having an appeal go against them which they are either afraid of being embarrassing or leading to some kind of discipline taken against them which is, of course, ridiculous.
 
Whether aimed at you or not, his language stil warranted a red.

Without being at the game, its difficult to comment fully, although from what you've written it seems that maybe a yellow should have come out a bit earlier. Show them early on, you won't stand for it! May have made a difference. On the other hand, it may not have helped. Some players/teams never learn
 
One main difference here for me:

"I must've warned 3/4 of their players for committing a couple of fouls, informing them that they would be cautioned for persistent fouling if they didn't calm down."

3-4? That's too many. The third one gets a caution. It has become a tactic for the team and the caution often kills it straight away. If it doesn't then the second or third caution will. Of course under the rule of self-preservation if a red player makes a similar foul shortly after, you ought ot consider a caution there too.

The red's feel that they are being protected, and will stop their niggles too (you may not see these, but they will be there.)
 
Tealeaf said:
One main difference here for me:

"I must've warned 3/4 of their players for committing a couple of fouls, informing them that they would be cautioned for persistent fouling if they didn't calm down."

3-4? That's too many. The third one gets a caution. It has become a tactic for the team and the caution often kills it straight away. If it doesn't then the second or third caution will. Of course under the rule of self-preservation if a red player makes a similar foul shortly after, you ought ot consider a caution there too.

The red's feel that they are being protected, and will stop their niggles too (you may not see these, but they will be there.)
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Thats what I was going to say. There comes a point where a final warning for one is a final warning for all.
 
Thanks again for all the replies :)

I've slept on it now and as you've all said I think I should've used my cards much earlier than I did. Oh well, it's a lesson learned and I'm straight back into it with an U14's game tonight :)
 
Yes I think the cards should come out a lot sooner then might helped yourself u might not and with red it been excat same thing and if they do appeal good luck but Don't think they're win
 
The only thing I would possibly say, is rather than straight Red the player for saying "W*nker", perhaps to save any appeal and to sell it better you could have 2nd cautioned him for either Dissent or Adopting an Aggressive? Maybe would have sold it a bit better and I doubt they would have had a problem with a 2nd caution?
 
Matthew said:
He asked whether I was sending the bookings/red in, to which I replied yes and explained what the consequences would be for me (possible suspension etc) if I didn't.
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I've been asked this in every men's game I've referee'd, I always send them in but is the punishment actually suspension because there must be a significant amount of refs not sending them in if each team asks me every game.
 
And also if managers keep asking u can say to them that first they are going in and if you ask again ill report ya
 
Robert Darfi said:
The only thing I would possibly say, is rather than straight Red the player for saying "W*nker", perhaps to save any appeal and to sell it better you could have 2nd cautioned him for either Dissent or Adopting an Aggressive? Maybe would have sold it a bit better and I doubt they would have had a problem with a 2nd caution?
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The problem was that I hadn't got round to showing the first yellow at that point! Initially, I planned to caution him for the altercation and this happened as I turned to take the name of the other player before cautioning them simultaneously. I would perhaps have considered the two yellows option had I already carded him, but in my eyes I had no option but to dismiss him for using 'foul and abusive language. As for the appeal, they haven't got a leg to stand on. I think it was more an attempt to persuade me not to send it in! :)
 
Nathan said:
I've been asked this in every men's game I've referee'd, I always send them in but is the punishment actually suspension because there must be a significant amount of refs not sending them in if each team asks me every game.
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Some don't but it's a stock line. "More in hope than expectation."
 
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