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Assistant Referees

Discussion in 'Your fixtures' started by PinnerPaul, Oct 5, 2017.

  1. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Those of us who act, fairly regularly, as ARs will no doubt be used to the pre match briefings from the man in the middle - they tend to be similar.

    However, there are times when something unusual comes up - or at least it seems unusual at the time.

    I was wondering what was the most unusual, or at least rare, instruction you have received?

    I'll kick off - This season I was asked by the referee to keep a foul count. Not something I had been asked previously. His reasoning was that if questioned by one of the teams about perceived bias he could counter with the actual number of fouls he had given..

    Thoughts on that and any unusual instructions you have received very welcome!
     
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  4. RustyRef

    RustyRef Moderator Staff Member

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    Not so much unusual, but I've had a few referees ask the assistants to make a note of the number of the defender on the near post at corners. That way if there is a handball and he loses the player for the DOGSO we'll have a bit of a clue between us. One even asked for the non-active assistant to clock the number of the player on the far post, although that can't be easy due to the disatance and the fact they'd be facing each other.

    In my time as a level 4 I had a couple of referees say ball out of play and offsides only, strictly no fouls. Don't agree with that at all, but ultimately it is the referee's decision.

    When 4th official the referee once asked me to keep a record of stoppages, which is quite common, but what was different is rather than him telling me what to put on the board I should tell him and he would either agree or disagree. So it gets to the end of the first half and I say 2 minutes, he replies "yes, that sounds right to me". Assessor comes in after the game and says that there should have been at least 4 or probably 5 minutes added time in the first half, referee responds with "yes, I thought there should have been much more as well". If looks could kill I would have been guilty of murder at that point ..!

    Keeping a foul count isn't a bad idea, but I would have thought it is better used to help out the referee with persistent infringement rather than defending himself against accusations of bias.
     
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  5. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

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    I haven't had anything crazy but anyway:
    - One older experienced ref wanted us only to give the thumbs up before KO if the team on our side had 11 players (up to the ARs to count)
    - 2nd hand, there is a ref who wants to always call the first foul (don't flag the first foul of the game, leave it to him)

    There are two unusual instructions I give:
    - No long conversations with players. Couple of words only. I am happy for ARs to warn, advise, explain during play and during dead ball but any conversations have to be with me (I've experienced players going to well-known experienced NAR colleagues to try and undermine me - and it works if the AR gets into it, especially in multi-language situation, which we have a lot of)
    - In matches with NARs and flying subs, AR1 to stay with benches in case of mass con (as we have to know which offenders are on/off the field at the time, and I don't want anyone from the bench joining a mass con, and anyone coming from the bench has to get the right sanction i.e. minimum YC)

    ---anecdote alert...
    ...so, it goes without saying, in my biggest game of the season this week, play off, observed, other colleagues present, my promotion decider, my NAR1 managed to totally stiff me on both of these counts... by getting into a conversation with a prone player that looked like an argument - and was then on the field, standing over said player a second time a few seconds later, after I had gently ushered him back to the sideline, only for me to find a potential mass con brewing behind me, including racist language accusation. Luckily nothing kicked off - but my attention got totally divided and I was managing the AR rather than the match. After settling the players down, I had quick word with him to remind him about the prematch instructions. I then got the injured player to leave the FoP and commiserated with him as he seemed hurt. I told him that there was no foul in our opinion. He seemed genuinely hurt so i said I was sorry if we had missed something. My AR then had the gall to accuse me after the game of undermining his authority as he had just been telling the player about what he saw. It tool all my inner peace not go mental. But hey, the game proceeded OK. No observer report yet;)
     
  6. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

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    I've thought of more...
    - One ref was very clear - he will take all the foul throws (no flagging foul throws)
    - Another ref the opposite - all foul throws with the AR (foul throws decisions for the ARs)
    - (in U14) Ref asked: don't be pedantic with GK kicks from the hands if the hands go outside the box - verbal warning first - only flag repeat offence after warning
    - Another I have started to tell my ARs: don't worry if I wave your flag down. It happens. Usually on their far side. It probably means there has been a deliberate play of the through ball by the defender so not offside - or that I am sure the active player did not commit the offence - or the ball has gone through to the GK and I am happy for them to play on. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm happy to see the flag (unless it's too early ;)).

    Generally I have worked with a load of great refs in the last two seasons in the highest leagues I do - not too much variation in style so it has been straightforward.
     
  7. Yampy

    Yampy Well-Known Member Level 5 Referee

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    Surely there are better uses of an AR that that?
    For example, in a match last night there was a small mass confrontation in front of me and I was able to relay what I saw to the referee accordingly. Would that be true if the referee had blown for a foul and my head was down writing the foul count?
     
  8. es1

    es1 Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    personally @santa sangria i wouldn't expect the ref to tell me who i can/cannot speak to and what i can/cannot say. banter/speaking to players is essential. if a ref told me i couldn't then it would irk me somewhat.

    not saying he still didnt cross the line by looking like getting in an argument with an injured player, but it might set you off on a confrontational setting before the game starts
     
  9. UKColt

    UKColt Well-Known Member Level 6 Referee

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    Not had anything particularly odd in instruction terms, but worst experience I've had is a ref who clearly couldn't be bothered to learn our names and so introduced us at the toss as 'my assistants' and then acknowledged us with 'Thank you assistant' or 'Thank you' throughout the game.

    It's two names, just remember them.

    Also had a game where the other assistant was far too matey with the benches and threw the ref under a bus on a penalty decision. Ref hadn't given it, I was AR closest and I wasn't giving it. After the game, the away team manager, who lost 2-0 and didn't get the pen, comes up and says 'That's a clear pen, even {AR NAME} said he couldn't believe you didn't give it'. In the changing rooms, ref asked if the AR used those words and he admits he did. I thought he was going to throw him out the window.
     
  10. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

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    Full disclosure... there are often 3-4 languages in play... and I only have rudimentary grasp of the most common. When I have been undermined before, it has been a player pretending not to understand me, then using that to approach an AR, and playing the AR if the AR gets involved - at the cost of my match control. Through that, I learnt that long conversations between AR and player mean trouble - whether I can understand them or not, or whether I can hear them or not.

    That's why I tell ARs to avoid long conversations. In case you missed it above, I also ask them to be pro-active and talk a few words when it helps - no holding, hands down, calm down, correct positioning of the restart etc etc etc - of course, this is all valuable. I do it as an AR (in the main language) and I know it really helps match control.

    Just not explaining a decision - especially not my decision - especially not when a player is talking to deliberately try to undermine me ;)
     
  11. es1

    es1 Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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    OK i see what you're saying, i actually suffer from the same problem trying to decipher the unintelligible Yorkshire language!

    I would always try and explain a decision the ref has made though if a player or team official asked during the game. chance to ease any tension
     
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  12. A Freethinker

    A Freethinker Well-Known Member

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    Jez, some interesting conversations there, I tell my ARs that 1/4 of the field is yours all offences flag and if you need me to come over put your hand to your chest pocket and I know it's a card. Penalty decisions from the near post are yours when 100% and I will take the rest. If we aren't sure make eye contact and go with me (subtle hand single) or direction on comms for throws and if I see a wrong offside I will wave you down immediately.

    Was told once on the line ball in and out of play only was so disrespectful I swore I would never do it, and yep I flagged for everything. I earned my position!
     
  13. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Your point about the GKs is a fairly common instruction I have heard.
     
  14. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    I agree - but I didn't write anything down. He only wanted 1st half so in my head it was 1-0; 1-1; 1-2 etc etc for 45 mins!
     
  15. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Interesting AF. From my experience most referees now do NOT give precise areas of the fop where they do/ do not want help. Just that they want it to be 'credible' and/or if you are in a better position than them.

    For example a quick hoof up field could mean that although 40/50 yards from the incident, you as AR are the closest official to the incident so would be expected to help the referee. I do think being too precise in the fop about where the AR should/should not get involved can cause problems?
     
  16. santa sangria

    santa sangria Well-Known Member

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    Another one I have asked for with inexperienced ARs, in addition to talking about "wait and see" and related is to re-emphasise the importance of the early flag if the attacker is heading for the GK. I had one the other week where I could see the AR itching to raise her flag but she put it off and put it off to the point where I blew before the flag went up! So, after that, I've been sure to remind ARs that there's nothing wrong with an early flag if there's even the slightest risk of GK collision (youth games).
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2017
  17. Sheffields Finest

    Sheffields Finest Happily minding that Gap

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    e167658052f45c59400a785a6b45ba61.jpg
    Nuff said!! :)
     
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  18. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    Not really ground breaking but as referee I have a pet hate of my assistants charging towards me at HT/FT
    Ok as ever, there will always be exceptions but I cant stand blowing the whistle and finding least 1 AR racing to me like a bodyguard...
     
  19. Tino Best

    Tino Best Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    What do you expect with a picture like that Ciley!:)
     
  20. Ciley Myrus

    Ciley Myrus Well-Known Member

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    Exactly....How can 22 players get to me if the AR is in the way...... ...


    but no, its one thing I discourage, oh, also, AR wanting your attention who shout "ref". And AR who try to be discreet with time signals with fingers on shorts towards end of half, want to know how long am playing? Ask !!
     
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  21. PinnerPaul

    PinnerPaul Well-Known Member Level 7 Referee

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    Mrs PP always tells me that looks silly as well!
     
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  22. es1

    es1 Well-Known Member Level 4 Referee

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