A&H

Dissent? OFFINABUS? or just get on with it?

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So after a free kick against him, the player turns to me and in a somewhat confrontational manner says "you know I am ready to quit football and go to jail". He had a moan in the previous couple of free kicks as well.

I hadn't had this said to me before and at the time I didn't really think about what he meant. I took it as just another moan and told him to get on with the game. Thinking about it later I realised there was more to it than just a pointless comment.

Has anyone heard this before and how did you deal with it?
 
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Had you thought it was a threat at the time you would be perfectly entitled to dismiss him. Not a lot you can do now. Maybe save it in the bank for next time you see him!!
I once had a player say something like 'if I saw you down town you wouldn't be such a big man', It took me a while for that to sink in, but before i restarted play I sent the ****** off... It was a threat...
 
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Difficult one, as he could be on bail pending a sentencing hearing having been told a custodial sentence is likely. Also, if he did mean it as a threat then I would argue that pulling a red card there is really putting yourself at unnecessary risk as he has nothing to lose in carrying out his threat.
 
Let me tell you a story. You might want to pull up a chair as it could be a long one. You might think it has nothing to with the OP, or refereeing at all. That's fine. But if you can spare a few minutes, bare with me.

20+ years ago I was a trainee teacher. It was approximately mid-way through the year, so I was now taking whole classes on my own. Today's tale concerns a Year 10 class - 14/15 year olds - they weren't enemies of the state, but they were no angels either. 30 teenagers have the potential to ruin anyone's day on a whim.

Last lesson of the day (always the hardest) and they were due to have a test. They knew this and had been told to revise. Now (for me) tests are fantastic - 55 minutes of silence to idle away until the bell goes - but as young inexperienced teacher back then, my workload on the day was high.

I got them all lined up outside the classroom, and when all was calm, invited them in. One lad, the class "rogue" - we'll call him Fred, as I can't remember his name - showed me his arm in a sling as he entered the classroom and told me he'd broken his arm and couldn't write. "I'll sort you out in a minute" I said, "just sit down and I'll get back to you." I was too busy getting them in in an orderly fashion to deal with him at that moment. The classroom wasn't big, and by Year 10 the students are getting big, I needed them all in and sat down, even then there was little room to swing the proverbial cat.

All the students were in, check. Next, I began handing out the papers, whilst issuing the standard instructions: "Don't open the paper yet" etc.

At last all the papers were handed out, everyone had a pen and I was able to utter those words "you may begin", I noted the time and wrote it on the blackboard, along with the finish time.

It'd only been five minutes or so since I lined the class up, but with a high workload and little experience, it had been a stressful 5 minutes. At last I could sit down, take a deep breath, relax a little, and take stock. I started to scan the room - lots of heads down and pens scribbling furiously away. And then my eyes settled on Fred. "Sh$t" I thought - I'd forgotten all about him, what was I to do if he couldn't write? My mind spun back up to whirring at one hundred miles an hour.

But at that same moment, I noticed him slip his arm out of his sling, pick up his pen and start writing. His mate caught his eye, gave a wry smile and then returned to his test.

I never had any problems with Fred or that class again.

i would like to say it was down to my classroom management skills and my natural ability as a teacher. But it wasn't. I got lucky.

Fred didn't have a broken arm, it was a ruse on his part. A test for the teacher, he was hoping to cause mischief, create a reaction. But, through my incompetence, that reaction never came and, when Fred realised it wasn't going to be forthcoming, he just got on with the test. No conflict, no drama, no lost face for anyone. Fred's classmates saw that he hadn't got one over me and so my stock went up in their eyes, but Fred wasn't humiliated in anyway either, so no need for him to react to re-assert his status.

I think a similar thing happened to the OP on the pitch - at the time he didn't think it a threat, and just said "lets get on with it" defusing the whole situation, either by accident or design (but probably accident!), probably the best course of action.

Of course - if I'd remembered Fred's broken arm, I'd have had to have done something about it, and it probably wouldn't have ended well for anyone (conflict rarely does.) Similarly if the OP had realised it was meant as a direct threat he would have had to take some action, but what action can you take to cool down someone who wants to heat up?

Just to re-iterate, in my tale, I got lucky and my incompetence saved the day ... sometimes ignorance is bliss!
 
Difficult one, as he could be on bail pending a sentencing hearing having been told a custodial sentence is likely. Also, if he did mean it as a threat then I would argue that pulling a red card there is really putting yourself at unnecessary risk as he has nothing to lose in carrying out his threat.
That's a weak response i think.

A player once said if i sent him off he would headbutt me. I sent him off and he attempted to headbutt me. He was sent off for a second yellow but i still took the comment as a threat and reported the fact.

If you took that as a threat and you would do nothing shame on you.
 
When reading it the first time my initial reaction was why would you RC? Isnt just a dumb comment from a dumb player. After reading SF's post it then got me thinking. I think your response in the game was right but one to keep in the back of our minds.
 
Thinking about it later
How much later? Before the next kick, during the next phase, at home...?

It's a great question. Here's what I'd like to think I would do: first, I would slow everything down, sloooooooow. No rash cards. No shouting. No quick movement. Whether or not I think the verbals merit nothing, YC or RC, I would get the captain/coach next to me first, along with the closest AR (NAR of course). If the captain/coach can't be trusted I would consider being in ear shot of the bench. Small movement to the touchline nearest the bench perhaps. Then get the player over. Isolated. Make sure everyone is calm, at a distance, explain the sanction and then administer.

If it's not YC/RC, it might just be a warning, something like "this is a warning, calm down, I don't interpret your comments as YC/RC now but it might be easy to do so if you carry on with similar." Basically do everything I can to take the heat out.
 
So after a free kick against him, the player turns to me and in a somewhat confrontational manner says "you know I am ready to quit football and go to jail". He had a moan in the previous couple of free kicks as well.

Purely as a statement in itself I don't consider this as dissent or OFFINABUS but it's one of those situations where you need to have been there to appreciate the context and circumstances.
 
Law 12 OFFENSIVE, INSULTING, ABUSIVE language or gestures. The comments made by the player are none of these !

"you know am ready to quit football and go to jail" ??

For all you know he could be quitting football to go and work as a warder ! I fail to see anything worthy of a red card in the statement.

There is nothing offensive, insulting or abusive in the comments made.

I totally understand someone might feel threatened by them. But the only way you could dismiss him here would be if he added in a few choice words so you could class it as abusive. You cannot take offence at someone telling you they might be going to jail anymore any more so than you can the player telling you "am a bouncer" or "am a kick boxer" or " am going to New York in May"
he might be "going to jail" for tax evasion although your obvious reaction, naturally would be to assume its for assault or so...
 
Well if that's the bar/tolerance level then every player who shouts (and it happens every game) "feck me ref" when you maybe award a throw in the wrong way should also be dismissed without haste?

Even shouting "am going to jail" is hard to justify as offensive, insulting or abusive. It might be stupidity or attention seeking, but offensive? It might be factual. If you are offended by someone shouting "am going to jail" then you are probably offended by a hit parade chart topper which has the %hit word bleeped out.

I suppose at a push it could be classed as aggressive or threatening. It it happened to me, I might explain to the player that his comments COULD be interpretated as a threat, I might also make that known to captain/manager/sec/ delete as apt.

as ever though its down to the individual on the day, if you deem that as worthy of dismissal then do it....
 
Just been watching the latest news........could it be classed as a "hate crime" too?
 
Just been watching the latest news........could it be classed as a "hate crime" too?

From the CPS website:

A Hate Incident is any incident which the victim, or anyone else, thinks is based on someones prejudice towards them because of their race, religion, sexual orientation, disability or because they are transgender.

Whilst some may see refereeing as a religion (we - its priesthood - often cite a calling, we have our own symbology and rituals, we wear robes of black ...) I think we may struggle to get it classed under one of the above.

(Although several players have claimed, on many occasions, that I have a severe visual disability)
 
Speaking as someone who has sat on lots of hearings, the panel can only go on facts not hearsay. If a player at a hearing dug his heels in and says he hadn't meant to threaten anyone, it would be nigh on impossible to find the charge proven if all he has said is "you know I am ready to quit football and go to jail". There is every chance that he will trip himself up of course during the hearing, but if he doesn't he would be walking away without sanction as there just isn't enough there to justify a red card.

I'm not going to criticise anyone who thinks this should be a sending off, that is their opinion. As I said before though, I think you'd be potentially putting yourself in danger unnecessarily, and personally I would call the captain in for a chat with the player. If the offending player decides to keep going and say something else stupid with the captain there then you have him bang to rights, and you also have a bit of protection as if he does anything stupid there is a very high chance that the captain (and then others) will protect you. Shove a red card up his nose when no one knows what is happening and that protection just doesn't exist.
 
I think at the very least you must do something.
Everything has context and you should act based on the context of what the player intends.
I think @RustyRef says is absolutely right but is as a minimum.
A simple question of "sorry I dont understand what you mean?" And the player may then walk himself up the garden path anyway with a clear offinabus.
 
I think at the very least you must do something.
Everything has context and you should act based on the context of what the player intends.
I think @RustyRef says is absolutely right but is as a minimum.
A simple question of "sorry I dont understand what you mean?" And the player may then walk himself up the garden path anyway with a clear offinabus.
That would be my reaction...what do you mean?(not least cos that was my reaction when I read it ie don't get his point) If he retracts it or doesn't repeat you arguably have your match control intact, he does it again 5 minutes later more literatley you at least have given some sort of chance. If he backs it up then send him off.
 
For those who asked for the context to the OP and a timeline:

Open age men, highest division in local park football. Semi-final game with the format meaning the winner gets a pass to the grand final and the looser will get a second chance knock out.

Very tense game with the team of the offending player receiving four cautions for dissents in the first half and a handful of public warnings. In an attempt to get the team to calm down at half time I had a talk to the captain and a club official. The club officials tells me the team has a preconception that I am against their team due to the events of their last game of which I was an AR. I assured them every game is a new game for me and should be the same for them.

The half time talk seemed to have worked until they fell behind 2-1 in the 65th minute when the moaning started again.

The OP incident occurred in the 80th minute. Given the context above, past games with this team and the history of the team and the club in general, I have no doubt it was a threat and I am beating myself up for not figuring it out immediately.

I figured it out 20 seconds too late after the game had restarted. My first thought was I can’t let him think he had got away with it. I ran past him while ball was in play and quietly told him if he threatens me again I will send him off in a flash. Then I got away from him not giving it a chance to escalate and it didn’t.

The game finished 3-1 with no send offs, 4 Dissent cautions to the loosing team and 2 USB cautions to the winning team.

I also reported the incident to the FA.
 
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