A&H

Open Age One of those 'why do I bother' games...

The Referee Store
i dont warn players to keep hands down, i'll just call it as it comes.. although i seem to have got into a habit of doing it at corners when players bizzarely have their hands held up, not in a players back, but above their heads as if to exaggerate the fact they are not pushing the oppo . Cant really think for the life of me why i would do that as that also in itself is not an offence. I might have to stop doing that ... its the pushing and shoving before the ball comes into play i should be concerned / warning about
 
Padfoot said:
That's like saying "if you don't challenge your opponent, I can't give a foul against you"................
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Not exactly....closer to saying "If you don't kick your opponent, I can't give a foul against you" in my opinion.....
 
Charlie Jones said:
must be an Essex thing @GraemeS
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I think it must be as I do agree with Mr P on this one.

At corners, I'll often say 'Play the ball lads, not the man", Level 4 on Sunday, "Steady lads, nothing silly" or "careful" if he thought a potential challenge might result in a foul.

Telling players that no hands on back = no foul does rather imply that hands on back = foul IMHO.
 
A player with his hands straight out in front of him on another players shoulders/back is only looking at impeding his opponent. He gets a whistle from me.

As a centre half myself it was a good way of getting the attacker out of your face when the referee was weak on it. The other trick was to get the shove/push in before the ball arrived and the ref's attention was elsewhere. I am therefore very aware of dropping zones and not following the flight of the ball.
 
Paul March said:
A player with his hands straight out in front of him on another players shoulders/back is only looking at impeding his opponent. He gets a whistle from me.

As a centre half myself it was a good way of getting the attacker out of your face when the referee was weak on it. The other trick was to get the shove/push in before the ball arrived and the ref's attention was elsewhere. I am therefore very aware of dropping zones and not following the flight of the ball.
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So you're saying that a player who puts his hands out to protect his space is going to get penalised by you for doing so i.e.protecting himself from his opponent backing into him etc?
 
Yep, if in my opinion he does so to impede or prevent a fair challenge. No player has a right to space, let alone set up protection zone that no one can enter.
 
Charlie Jones said:
a couple of simple points really:

  • Hands down is a directive command - no confusion
  • It's short and non confusing
  • Watch the pushing, watching the push etc. can be misconstrued by the attacking team that there has been a push occurred, so why aren't you blowing?
  • You are telling the teams to keep hands down, so even if it isn't an offence to 'feel' for an opponent, if you have called hands down and then feel that it impeded the opponent/was a push - they can't have many complaints?
as you have rightly said, feeling an opponent isn't an offence - impeding is, and having your hands up can very quickly turn into an impede, if you've said 'watch the pushing' and then give a FK for the impede, it leaves players to moan 'but ref, you didn't say hands down'

its all about covering yourself at all angles.
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"Hands down" is probably my favourite "tool" - it's become something of a safe word. But it works for me.
Especially with younger players where I am watching for hooking and arms at head height - and with all ages during corners and when strikers/defenders are back to goal grappling. It's also useful when midfielders start to reach out, half hug or mis tug...

But it's not necessarily the reference to hands... it's a great tool that instantly tells players you are attentive... and it doesn't imply you've seen a foul... As you can tell. I am a fan. But like anything... you can't over-use it.
 
Prevention is better than the cure. At senior levels you are forced to tell players not to foul, be careful, don't push, etc, as if you don't you get clobbered by observers.

I still do it at lower levels, the players (generally) like it, it prevents problems, why would you not do it?
 
This is the most difficult things to get right When your learning the trade and can lead to all sorts of problems if handled badly.

That said, I come down in the camp of padfoot on this one, spot on for me.

It can be Difficult to gauge at times, but being overly fussy with giving soft fouls will only result in more problems as the shouts for it increase from both sides. Go too far the other way and you end up with a game marred by a lot of pushes/potential for it escalating.

Somewhere between the two is the sweet spot. Giving the genuine fouls, but also not being too fussy. Experience and luck and trying to really get a feel for who is actually doing what in the challenges.

Nice and vocal about what you are giving or not and why.

Hope for the best. :D
 
The one in the back that I blow for or flag for is arm in back of head neck where it stops them from going up to head ball
 
Padfoot, Law12 page 82- impeding a player with contact. If in my opinion a player uses his arms to stop an opponent from making a fair challenge I will blow.

Quite different to a push and not all contact is impeding. I recognise the difference between using arms fairly (balance, protection, leverage etc) and when they are used to impede.
 
Paul March said:
Padfoot, Law12 page 82- impeding a player with contact. If in my opinion a player uses his arms to stop an opponent from making a fair challenge I will blow.

Quite different to a push and not all contact is impeding. I recognise the difference between using arms fairly (balance, protection, leverage etc) and when they are used to impede.
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No no no....where is the stipulation that you have posted.....

Paul March said:
No player has a right to space, let alone set up protection zone that no one can enter.
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Where is that in the LOTG?
 
Paul March said:
Where is the counter position in the laws? this isn't rugby.
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So, it's just your opinion that a player doesn't have a right to space, it's not actually part of the Laws that we enforce?

Presumably then you never penalise for a player "backing in" as no one has a right to space.....
 
Don't let what I actually posted effect your comments. I talk about fair challenges, massive difference. If a player backs in to impede or prevent an opponent playing the ball/challenging for the ball fairly then I will stop play. If a player straight arms someone unfairly then I will also stop play.

I agree that it is a fine line- we are not refereeing a rugby match but in the same token we are not umpiring a netball match either.

The laws don't talk about players being able to protect themselves by throwing their arms about. My opinions are based on the spirit of the game (fair contest) and my experience as a player.

I accept other people will have different opinions based on their experiences etc, that's life.
 
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