A&H

Open Age Overturning AR decision

volt177

volt177

Also 3W
Level 5 Referee
This evening, for the first time ever I overruled my assistant (neutral not club) for an offside call. He flagged for offside, but I shouted "play on, ball played by defender", which it was. He admitted to me afterwards that he did not see the ball played by the defender, which is completely fine - we aren't perfect and running the line is a tricky job - and I had no issue with the fact that we had different calls, since I was in the most credible position to see that play.

The benches and spectators did take issue however, and I feel bad for almost ruining his credibility for the rest of the match, and every decision following he had an earful from the benches, spectators and players.

Is there any better way of going about disagreements with your linesman so as to avoid questions of credibility?
 
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If the AR is wrong in law, then you're 100% correct to overrule. As its a bit of a rarity, especially at a level without comms, it's always going to cause a bit of upset/confusion.

The key around it is communication. If you see the AR flag early enough, maybe some verbals to the players to keep playing. Then once ball leaves field of play, you're bound to have questions from players. Grab captains and explain why you overruled the AR. A decent captain will understand. The rest of them will choose not to, but we're there to make the tough decisions.

Well done for spotting it!
 
volt177 said:
The benches and spectators did take issue however, and I feel bad for almost ruining his credibility for the rest of the match, and every decision following he had an earful from the benches, spectators and players.

Is there any better way of going about disagreements with your linesman so as to avoid questions of credibility?
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Overrule decision sounds correct, but afterwards you could have backed your lino more by at least having words with the benches and players. If they keep on at him then get the yellow card out.

Spectators have a higher bar but you can also tell managers that they need to be removed if they become abusive.
 
I presume the play by the defender constitutes a deliberate play in law?

One thing I would say is that in this situation, if it leads to a goal, don't just award the goal. Go over and have a chat with your assistant before awarding it. Even if you know what the outcome will be, it helps sell it to everyone else, and then you can make sure you explain it to the captain and/or manager.
 
RefereeX said:
I presume the play by the defender constitutes a deliberate play in law?

One thing I would say is that in this situation, if it leads to a goal, don't just award the goal. Go over and have a chat with your assistant before awarding it. Even if you know what the outcome will be, it helps sell it to everyone else, and then you can make sure you explain it to the captain and/or manager.
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This

You need to confirm exactly why the flag was raised and then able to accurately relay this to everyone.

Also be prepared for the absolute 💩 storm that follows. Correct outcome or not people will be unhappy that an incorrect flag went up.
 
I always have this in the pre-match: “If I wave you down, it’s a good thing. You give me the information with the flag. If you think the attacker played the ball, you flag. If I see the defender has played the ball, I will wave you down. It’s a good thing. It’s up to the players to play to the whistle.”

Obvs also discuss wait&see - because flagging the wrong player or too early should not happen. Also if the ball ends up with the GK, the AR should be ready to be waved down.

Without comms, the OP is totally normal. It’s important that ARs are prepared and that you communicate clearly on the field. It should not be confrontational with your AR.
 
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Agree with Santa - phrasing this as a "disagreement" with your AR is needlessly confrontational and dismissive. They have part of the information and given the lack of comms, did the only thing they could with the info they had. Your job is to take the information they gave you, add your own context and come to the right final decision. Including letting the move play out and then making the call if you think there's a reason the flag/no flag might be wrong.

And yes, going for a chat with the AR post-goal is a great shout as well, both to confirm you've definitely understood what they flagged for (do you know for sure you weren't just late seeing the flag for the previous pass for example?) and also to sell the decision. Then once you've done that, call both captains over, explain the decision you've reached and only then, whistle and signal for the goal.
 
JamesL said:
This

You need to confirm exactly why the flag was raised and then able to accurately relay this to everyone.

Also be prepared for the absolute 💩 storm that follows. Correct outcome or not people will be unhappy that an incorrect flag went up.
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Indeed - it's a perfect invitation to have a go at the officiating team !

What that also means in practice is that the wise decision is sometimes not to overrule your AR, even if they are wrong. Not saying that's the case in this example, but there are situations where that will give you a better outcome
 
I had it in a couple of contrib games, the AR in both cases thought an attacker had passed the ball whereas I had a much better view and it was clearly played by the defender. One led to a goal, but not to too much grief as pretty much everyone knew it couldn't have been offside. The defending captain had a bit of a moan to ask whether I shouldn't have stopped play as his defenders had reacted to seeing the flag, but was OK with it when I explained that I couldn't.

It happens, I've been guilty of it a couple of times on the line as well. Looking through a crowd of players, just see the ball move forward, and no comms to ask who played it, so the flag has to go up and you then just hope that the referee was on the ball.
 
I had this happen to me, I was AR1 managing the benches step 5.

Ball goes through, I raise flag, defence switches off, referee waves my flag down. Striker scores.

Queue 60minutes of the bench and the defence constantly asking why I am even there and so on and so forth. Non-stop dissent. Referee just isn't engaging.

Probably made a lot worse by the fact the referee didn't come over and explain to anyone why he waved me down. So I couldn't really explain to the benches etc, so I just had to silently weather the storm.

I think him simply saying the defence played it back, would have helped me and everyone else.
 
OldNavyRef said:
I had this happen to me, I was AR1 managing the benches step 5.

Ball goes through, I raise flag, defence switches off, referee waves my flag down. Striker scores.

Queue 60minutes of the bench and the defence constantly asking why I am even there and so on and so forth. Non-stop dissent. Referee just isn't engaging.

Probably made a lot worse by the fact the referee didn't come over and explain to anyone why he waved me down. So I couldn't really explain to the benches etc, so I just had to silently weather the storm.

I think him simply saying the defence played it back, would have helped me and everyone else.
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60 minutes?

So was there not a conversation at half time and then an opportunity to quickly nip it on the bud at the start of half by sharing the explanation?

And even still silently weathering the storm is not the approach. Ask. Tell. Warn. Report. And start having some action taken. 👍🏻
 
JamesL said:
60 minutes?

So was there not a conversation at half time and then an opportunity to quickly nip it on the bud at the start of half by sharing the explanation?

And even still silently weathering the storm is not the approach. Ask. Tell. Warn. Report. And start having some action taken. 👍🏻
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Yeah, ref wasn't clear at half-time and I am improving at managing the benches game by game (this match I was totally new, so handled it poorly).

My last observation was pretty good by telling me how to manage benches. Exactly what you said above.
 
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